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Overseas Operation Bill

droodzilla

pfm Member
This will be an interesting test for Labour under Starmer. The bill will make it much harder (maybe impossible) to charge (former) members of the armed forces for war crimes if the alleged crimes took place more than five years ago.

Labour MP Clive Lewis has written a thoughtful post about why he intends to vote against the bill, whatever the party whip is:
The upcoming legislation entitled the Overseas Operation Bill is about to begin its passage through Parliament. I wanted to set out here my thoughts on it for two key reasons:
1. I believe this to be an extremely important bill that has implications for human rights, the rule of law and the treatment of our armed forces.
2. It is possible the Labour party frontbench position may, at the 3rd (and final) reading, be to whip to either abstain or vote for the bill. This is of course subject to any amendments that may yet change the worst aspects of the bill. However, as things stand, the party’s front bench position seems to be that this legislation is a government trap - one we must not walk into by opposing.
Turning now to the bill itself.
Part of the bill relates a new six-year limit for veterans themselves to bring claims for conditions such as post-traumatic stress disorder or hearing loss. The MoD insists the changes will not prevent personnel and veterans from bringing claims. However, the British Legion is concerned this could be in breach of the Armed Forces Covenant and disadvantage military personnel when seeking redress from government.
The part of the bill and it’s stated intention, as per the Ministry of Defence (MoD), is to stop ‘vexatious legal action’ against veterans who have served overseas. In other words - stronger legal protection for service personnel and veterans by restricting investigations against them for historic acts
It does this by severely restricting the ability to prosecute serious criminal wrongdoing by overseas personnel by installing a presumption against doing so after five years. It also requires the attorney general’s consent. The bill then goes on to interfere with the courts’ discretionary ability to allow civil claims against the Ministry of Defence after six years. This would include claims by veterans hurt by friendly fire during overseas operations, as well as civilian victims of torture, arbitrary detention and unlawful killing.
The bill also requires the secretary of state to consider opt-outs from the European Court of Human Rights (EHCR) in respect of any significant overseas operation. In effect this means if we were to sign up to peacekeeping and humanitarian operations, the government could decide to withdraw from the most fundamental of international post-war legal norms.
The reality is this bill would, if enacted, effectively grant veterans of the Iraq and Afghanistan campaigns immunity from prosecution. In other words it would decriminalise torture and murder. Aside from the damaging consequences this will have to Britain’s standing in the world as to the rule of international law, it would also be a breach of our basic obligation to global Human Rights. That’s because the this bill will not apply to the British mainland.
That in effect means we would have a two-tier system of human rights justice. Overseas, dealing predominantly in post-colonial countries, we are in effect saying black and brown lives or the victims of torture, matter less. The whole concept of universal human rights is that we are ALL human beings and therefore equal before the law. This legislation fundamentally undermines that principle and, in my opinion, must be opposed.
As the climate crisis deepens, refugee numbers increase, and more states destabilise, how we respond to these crisis’ will be more important than ever. Donald Trump and other authoritarian nationalist leaders want to undermine the post-war human rights-based world order. Whilst it has many faults and inconsistencies, it is a base nonetheless to build on for the future. What Boris Johnson is doing here is to undermine and regress those gains rather than build on them.
It is my belief the Labour Party and all progressives must oppose this attack on a fundamental principle. We must always make the argument for universal human rights – no matter however difficult that is. I understand we need to win over people whose votes we have been losing since the 1990s. But no one, not even those who perhaps support such measures as are in this bill, respect a political party that will not stand fast on its principles.
Therefore, we must stand our ground on this bill and make the case for the kind of world we wish to live in. As such, unless major changes are made, I will be voting against this bill at its final reading irrespective of the party whip.
I agree. The question is what will Starmer do. Will he be so eager to wrap himself in the flag that he'll write off any scruples he might have about human rights? Will ethnic minority Labour MPs be the only opposition and, if so, will Starmer hang them out to dry.

Lots going on right now but this is one to watch.
 
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Who’d have ever guessed an increasingly far-right and nationalistic state would legislate to place tools of authoritarianism above the law? That’s never happened before in history! Yet another incremental step away from human rights legislation etc we will see after leaving the protection of the EU. It will be a steady drip drip of erosion from now on. They won’t take too much at any one time, but the trajectory will be clear to see.
 
Who’d have ever guessed an increasingly far-right and nationalistic state would legislate to place tools of authoritarianism above the law? That’s never happened before in history! Yet another incremental step away from human rights legislation etc we will see after leaving the protection of the EU. It will be a steady drip drip of erosion from now on. They won’t take too much at any one time, but the trajectory will be clear to see.
They’ve only just begun. Four more years of it and unless they’re brought down, you won’t recognise Britain when they’ve finished.
 
Needless to say, Corbyn, RLB etc. did vote against the second reading tonight.

From what I can figure out only 18 Labour MPs voted against the Tories. The rest of the 77 were SNP, Lib Dems etc. Just 18 MPs out of a party of 202 with the spine to stand up for proper legal accountability despite having a lawyer as a leader. A sad indictment and yet another example of how the party is just way, way too ‘gammon’ for folk like me.
 
It’s the second reading. Most bills pass that stage, it’s mostly procedural. Don’t read too much into it. They might even be waving it through because the debate stages should provide good opportunities to eviscerate the Tories. So now the fun starts, though. Let’s see whether Labour has a spine.
 
Does this override the Geneva Convention?
According to the article I shared, yes:

https://www.theguardian.com/law/202...f-bill-shielding-uk-soldiers-from-prosecution
The overseas operations bill, expected to be introduced in parliament next month, introduces a “statutory presumption against prosecution” after five years to apply to all forces personnel, including those who served in Iraq and Afghanistan.

It is intended to fulfil a Conservative election pledge to tackle “vexatious legal claims” that the party argues “have recently undermined our armed forces” – and was published for first reading in May at the height of the coronavirus crisis.

By including torture and war crimes as offences that would be covered by effective amnesty, Healey said the legislation was at odds with the Geneva conventions covering humane behaviour in war and broke the UN convention against torture.

“This clearly creates the risk that serious violations could go unpunished,” Healey wrote, “if an incident does not come to light for five years or if investigations are drawn out beyond that deadline.”
One would hope there were better ways to deter "vexatious claims".
 
From Sky

Ministers have cited the problems of a previous probe into allegations made against Iraq war veterans as one example of the need to legislate.

In 2017, the £34m Iraq Historic Allegations Team (IHAT) was closed down after seven years without a successful prosecution.

It followed the striking off of Phil Shiner, a human rights lawyer who brought abuse claims against UK troops, for multiple charges of misconduct
.

I am not condoning bad behaviour by our Armed Forces at all but as the article above makes clear they shouldn’t be easy targets for unscrupulous lawyers either.

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Around 70% of allegations received by IHAT were dismissed as there was no case to answer.
 
From Sky

Ministers have cited the problems of a previous probe into allegations made against Iraq war veterans as one example of the need to legislate.

In 2017, the £34m Iraq Historic Allegations Team (IHAT) was closed down after seven years without a successful prosecution.

It followed the striking off of Phil Shiner, a human rights lawyer who brought abuse claims against UK troops, for multiple charges of misconduct
.

I am not condoning bad behaviour by our Armed Forces at all but as the article above makes clear they shouldn’t be easy targets for unscrupulous lawyers either.

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Around 70% of allegations received by IHAT were dismissed as there was no case to answer.
I'm familiar with the context but the government needs to find a way to deter "vexatious claims" that doesn't undermine the Geneva convention.
 
I am not condoning bad behaviour by our Armed Forces at all but as the article above makes clear they shouldn’t be easy targets for unscrupulous lawyers either.

True, but this would opens the door to making war crimes hard/impossible to prosecute. That it appears to break the Geneva Convention rings massive alarm bells regarding just how far right/nationalist we are drifting as a nation. On the whole I feel our armed services act well given the political acts they are forced to carry out (e.g. they should never have been in Iraq etc at all), but as a tax payer footing the bill I have exceptionally high standards when it comes to human rights, civil liberties etc and I want the book thrown at anyone carrying out criminal acts and with some considerable velocity.
 
I'm reading that Starmer sacked Nadia Whittome (youngest MP in the HoC, and a fine principled woman) for voting against the bill. Two other junior shadow ministers, including my MP, Olivia Blake, have also resigned after voting against the bill.

Looks like former human rights lawyer Starmer is happy to sack any Labour MP who stands up for human rights. Under new management indeed.
 
I'm reading that Starmer sacked Nadia Whittome (youngest MP in the HoC, and a fine principled woman) for voting against the bill. Two other junior shadow ministers, including my MP, Olivia Blake, have also resigned after voting against the bill.

Looks like former human rights lawyer Starmer is happy to sack any Labour MP who stands up for human rights. Under new management indeed.

WTAF?! First Starmer criticises Extinction Rebellion rather than fascist protestors causing trouble in Dover, and now this. Can someone tell me what the hell is going on with Labour? Where's the f----ing opposition?
 
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Some people are never happy.

This is moderate, centre-left politics: it’s how it works.

So in these extraordinary times, when the threat from far-right nationalism has never been so acute since maybe WWII, it's just business as usual, yes?
 
This is moderate, centre-left politics: it’s how it works.

The moderate centre left parties (Greens, SNP, Lib Dems) appear to have voted against it.

GammonLabour test score: 18/202. Fail. Must try harder.
 
So in these extraordinary times, when the threat from far-right nationalism has never been so acute since maybe WWII, it's just business as usual, yes?
Not quite. For these guys, extremism means that things have to be even more business as usual than usual. The moment demands extreme moderation.
 


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