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Discussion in 'off topic' started by Tony Lockhart, May 23, 2022.

  1. Bob McC

    Bob McC Living the life of Riley

    I can’t believe anyone could think it wasn’t inevitable.
  2. foxwelljsly

    foxwelljsly Hawkwind and Fire

    Because the use of personal vehicles always incurs externalities. EV users are being let off them for now as an incentive to switch, once the need to incentivise people to switch has abated, EVs will be taxed in much the same way as ICE vehicles.

    Buying and running an EV may be less environmentally damaging than buying an ICE vehicle, but it's not environmentally friendly. Not moving around or moving around under your own steam is far less environmentally damaging than either.

    I'm waiting for the lithium wars. :)
  3. gingermrkettle

    gingermrkettle Deep vein trombonist

    Currently 38% per
    Can be quite a bit less on a more windy day.
  4. Ponty

    Ponty pfm Member

    Jesus wept. That’s after tax as well. It’ll get to the point where the only people who can afford to travel will be those on business expenses. Mind you, that will be the case for driving as well at this rate. I wonder when the HMRC mileage rates will be increased…
  5. Tony Lockhart

    Tony Lockhart Avoiding Stress, at Every Opportunity

    I wonder if, as long commutes become prohibitively expensive for many, house prices will adjust to suit. I was travelling 45 miles each way for about ten years, but since 2016…


    That’s cycling, I can walk it in under an hour!
    Snufkin, martin clark and PhilofCas like this.
  6. Seeker_UK

    Seeker_UK Feelin' nearly faded as my jeans

    I get £0.30 per mile for 10k miles then £0.25p after. Driving for work will start to cost (*) me if diesel hits £2.25 per litre.

    (*) Fuel cost only. I've already stopped costing in wear and tear.
    martin clark and Tony Lockhart like this.
  7. boneman

    boneman pfm Member

    All good points. I've recently read that petrol engine effeiciency is such that the worst damage to the environment not comes not from the tailpipe but the compounds from the tyres turning into microdust/plastic in the air and brake dust!

    The 'lithium wars' made me chuckle though I could also imagine it actually happening! :|
  8. gintonic

    gintonic 50 shades of grey pussy cats

    my Mrs was paying nearly £2k per year for a season ticket (4 stops on the train). No longer
  9. gingermrkettle

    gingermrkettle Deep vein trombonist

    Particulates maybe, but only because the emission standards are becoming staggeringly tight on tailpipe particulates to the point where you pretty much can't meet them with a non-hybrid. With Euro IV diesel the aftertreatment for an engine cost as much as the engine itself, Euro VII is several orders of magnitude stricter. Oh, and let's not forget that brake dust levels are much less from cars with regenerative braking to the point that some pad formations are just not suitable.

    Thermal efficiency (i.e. CO2) has only changed marginally though as there are fundamental limits given the compression levels.
  10. AmadeusMozart

    AmadeusMozart Well-Known Member

    Shipping ~ 3%, planes ~ 3.7%, cars inclusive trucks, tractors, bulldozers etc. 27%, industry 51%, crop burning .... 17%....

    Modern cars pollute 99% than those manufactured in the 1960's.

    In New Zealand the dairy industry (cows!) is responsible for 88% of the methane pollution (and methane is 25 times worse for global warming than CO2)......

    And now the global warming unlocks the methane that was locked up in frozen regions e.g. Siberia...
  11. Sue Pertwee-Tyr

    Sue Pertwee-Tyr neither here nor there

    Methane is a problem, but it is quite short-lived in the atmosphere, so it's a different problem to CO2 which, IIRC, persists for around a century, so emissions are cumulative.
  12. Seeker_UK

    Seeker_UK Feelin' nearly faded as my jeans

    The half-life of methane in the atmosphere is moot if billions of tonnes get released from the permafrost.
  13. Yank

    Yank Bulbous Also Tapered

    More fun in the permafrotst, there's all kinds of 10,000+ year old virus and bacteria. Sure, let's release all that.
  14. Snufkin

    Snufkin pfm Member

  15. Yank

    Yank Bulbous Also Tapered

  16. Snufkin

    Snufkin pfm Member

    Mostly but exchange rate comes into it as well.
    People in the UK love paying lots of tax that's why they keep voting Tory.
  17. Yank

    Yank Bulbous Also Tapered

    Tax is not necessarily a problem if you get some value from it.
    Sue Pertwee-Tyr and sean99 like this.
  18. Snufkin

    Snufkin pfm Member

  19. sean99

    sean99 pfm Member

    This - in spades. Many US voters would rail against a 5% increase in federal income tax rates, but are (apparently) OK with paying $20k+ a year for health insurance.

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