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Original CD's not Remasters / AAA-AAD

Avonessence

Avonessence

Hiking Consistency Rapporteur
I am on the search to see if there is a central place or places where you can mostly get hold of CD's which are the original recordings that haven't been remastered.

Is there such a place or places, or would I have to trawl the internet looking for second hand originals?

Also, is there any music out their that is still recorded, mixed and mastered completely in Analogue, then transferred to the relevant media?
 
Internet sellers rarely know which version. You are better off going to a shop and using date. Early CDs of existing rock albums were often copied straight from master tapes onto Sony videorecorder [the fist digi format] They are often bass light and a bit weedy sounding as the cutting engineer usually gets the final balance when making a vinyl master. But they have the dynamics and a bit of tone control balances things. I would guess 89 as a date, but it's hard to say. Certainly by 2009 they were buggering everything they could with declipping algorithms.
 
I use the DR database to get the relevant catalogue number and then ask sellers who are selling used at Amazon Market Place.

Neil
 
Ebay tends to be pretty good, plus many dealers (such as myself) do understand the differences and comment on interesting items in their listings. I'm always happy to answer any question about a stock item, e.g. catalogue number, nationality, date, label design etc. Whilst I'll obviously stock any mastering regardless of whether I like it myself (my taste is irrelevant and it may differ wildly from the customer's) I do try and bring home the earlier and more collectable issues whenever I see them at a price that is viable to do so. I'm actually becoming quite a geeky CD collector myself of late!

PS whilst many modern remasters are (IMO) utterly hideous it is certainly not safe to conclude all are. Many are in all fairness very good and improve on the original issue. It's always worth researching the specific title rather than automatically assuming fist issue is best.
 
I really appreciate the information in pointing me in the right direction.

Neil,

The DR Database is very useful, just typing in a handful of CD's I suspected come up as bad to transitional on the Database.

Tony L,

It's good to know that someone else has a similar opinion that many of modern remasters are horrible, I also agree that certain remasters from gifted engineers are well worth obtaining for the improvement on the original, for example Steven Wilsons golden touch and ear (IMO) on the King Crimson catalogue and some of the Jethro Tull albums are particularly outstanding.

There is an interesting article here http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/jun10/articles/porcupinetree.htm
 
Avonessence said:
It's good to know that someone else has a similar opinion that many of modern remasters are horrible, I also agree that certain remasters from gifted engineers are well worth obtaining for the improvement on the original, for example Steven Wilsons golden touch and ear (IMO) on the King Crimson catalogue and some of the Jethro Tull albums are particularly outstanding.
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Some of the prog stuff, e.g. King Crimson's ITCOTCK is actually a back to the multitrack remix rather than a remaster. I actually much prefer that one to my pink-rim Island vinyl, but it is meddling with history. The same thing happened to Bitches Brew by Miles Davis, and apparently Lamb Lies Down by Genesis, though apparently with far less success.

Jazz and classical can go either way, e.g, Miles Davis Columbia catalogue is consistently superb in it's current remastering (with a question mark over Bitches Brew), whereas Blue Note's RVG Edition is controversial in the extreme and really divides opinion (I far prefer the earlier Ron McMaster issues). Atlantic and Impulse seem to be producing very good quality CDs, e.g. the 'Deluxe Edition' of Coltrane's A Love Supreme is arguably as good as that title has ever sounded in it's history as they unearthed an earlier generation master tape or something. Odd little gems shine through all the time, e.g. I was raving about this Original Album Seriest reissue of five Man albums a couple of weeks ago here. Some folk really do take care and do their catalogues justice.
 
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Tony L said:
Jazz and classical can go either way, e.g, Miles Davis Columbia catalogue is consistently superb in it's current remastering (with a question mark over Bitches Brew), whereas Blue Note's RVG Edition is controversial in the extreme and really divides opinion (I far prefer the earlier Ron McMaster issues).
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Are you saying that the original 'Bitches Brew' on CD (blue border Columbia Jazz Masterpiece issue) sounds better than the current remaster? I got a copy of it from way back when it first came out and IIRC it's extremely muddy sounding. The Bitches box set sounds pretty decent though and I've recently acquired a second press vinyl version (two-eye) which I've yet to play.

Thankfully most jazz reissues sound pretty decent with the rare exception.
 
hockman said:
Are you saying that the original 'Bitches Brew' on CD (blue border Columbia Jazz Masterpiece issue) sounds better than the current remaster? I got a copy of it from way back when it first came out and IIRC it's extremely muddy sounding.
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No, as ever it's a bit more complex than that! The box set version is a remix, it was reassembled from the multitrack and it differs in several ways. The most common complaint is the echo (which had to be re-added) is out of time compared to the original, plus there are other issues where things drop in / out very slightly differently. We need to think of the box as a very different thing than a remaster, it is in effect another Bitches Brew. I've not actually heard it so I can't pass any comment, all I know is it is rather controversial as it does alter history to some degree.

If you want a digital Bitches Brew that at least shares the same mix as your Columbia 2-eye the best is apparently a Japanese issue from quite a while ago (late 80s or early-90s IIRC), I can't recall which one, but the details are hidden somewhere on one of many hundred plus page threads over on Steve Hoffman's forum. Luckily for me this mastering was selected for the remarkably well-compiled 71xCD Complete Columbia Albums box (they really did pick the best masters rather than the most recent), and I think it sounds superb, but I've not compared it to much (only a very different quadrophonic vinyl mix). The lucky thing for everyone else is that it's also the master selected for Perfect Miles Davis Collection box. This box is effectively a subset of the 71xCD set and is one of the great bargains in the history of recorded music. Everyone really should buy it immediately (yes, right now! It is but a click away!). You'd likely pay a lot more for the original Japanese CD of Bitches Brew!
 
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DR Database + Discogs. I check Amazon etc to see if I can ID the release accurately, of course, but Discogs has IME been good for forensic buying.
 
hockman said:
Are you saying that the original 'Bitches Brew' on CD (blue border Columbia Jazz Masterpiece issue) sounds better than the current remaster? I got a copy of it from way back when it first came out and IIRC it's extremely muddy sounding. The Bitches box set sounds pretty decent though and I've recently acquired a second press vinyl version (two-eye) which I've yet to play.

Thankfully most jazz reissues sound pretty decent with the rare exception.
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The blue border "fat case" has a really terrible, muddy SQ. The best one to get IMHO is the Japanese mini-lp release from the 90s.
 
I have enough different copies of Bitches Brew that I don't need another. Hopefully my early press vinyl will be my definitive version plus I also have the Bitches boxset.

Good as BB is, I am not sure if it is one of my favorite Miles. I find myself digging the later funkier Miles and I much prefer the earlier stuff e.g. the 1st and 2nd classic quintets.

I am not one to constantly compare versions ala the SteveHoffman forum members. In fact reading SH.tv sometimes gives me a headache!

The DR database doesn't tell you the full story. Some reasonable level of compression can make the music sound good but there are other factors at play as well. Although if the master is redlining almost all the time, it will sound terrible.
 
Avonessence said:
Has this type of DR compression migrated into vinyl versions/reprints?
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Tempted to answer 'Of course, because they're sourced from the same digital remasters', but that is only true for some labels. Clearly, there are specialist labels which go to considerable lengths to do exactly the opposite, and to retain the original DR.
 
Avonessence said:
I am on the search to see if there is a central place or places where you can mostly get hold of CD's which are the original recordings that haven't been remastered.

Is there such a place or places, or would I have to trawl the internet looking for second hand originals?

Also, is there any music out their that is still recorded, mixed and mastered completely in Analogue, then transferred to the relevant media?
Click to expand...


Hi

I own a Naim system and am regularly disappointed with the quality of the latest produced CD's
 
Is the reference to the 'box set' the 4 CD set from a number of years ago or the 40th anniversary set with LP. It's so difficult trying to keep track of versions with the constant reissues. I fancy the perfect Miles box but I do have most of it in various forms already, including the extended box sets.

Tony L said:
No, as ever it's a bit more complex than that! The box set version is a remix, it was reassembled from the multitrack and it differs in several ways. The most common complaint is the echo (which had to be re-added) is out of time compared to the original, plus there are other issues where things drop in / out very slightly differently. We need to think of the box as a very different thing than a remaster, it is in effect another Bitches Brew. I've not actually heard it so I can't pass any comment, all I know is it is rather controversial as it does alter history to some degree.

If you want a digital Bitches Brew that at least shares the same mix as your Columbia 2-eye the best is apparently a Japanese issue from quite a while ago (late 80s or early-90s IIRC), I can't recall which one, but the details are hidden somewhere on one of many hundred plus page threads over on Steve Hoffman's forum. Luckily for me this mastering was selected for the remarkably well-compiled 71xCD Complete Columbia Albums box (they really did pick the best masters rather than the most recent), and I think it sounds superb, but I've not compared it to much (only a very different quadrophonic vinyl mix). The lucky thing for everyone else is that it's also the master selected for Perfect Miles Davis Collection box. This box is effectively a subset of the 71xCD set and is one of the great bargains in the history of recorded music. Everyone really should buy it immediately (yes, right now! It is but a click away!). You'd likely pay a lot more for the original Japanese CD of Bitches Brew!
Click to expand...
 
This site contains affiliate links for which pink fish media may be compensated.
Cdb3 said:
Is the reference to the 'box set' the 4 CD set from a number of years ago or the 40th anniversary set with LP. It's so difficult trying to keep track of versions with the constant reissues. I fancy the perfect Miles box but I do have most of it in various forms already, including the extended box sets.
Click to expand...

Yes, though I think the vinyl in that box may be the original mix, but you'd have to read about 400 pages of the Steve Hoffman forum to find out for sure! I know that is the box for which the rather controversial back to multitrack remix was done.
 
Thanks. I do wish they wouldn't mess the originals around. I bought the first anniversary version of Derek and the Dominos Layla which had been remixed and it just sounded so wrong. For the 40th they went back to the original - and they take my money every time - what a sucker...

Tony L said:
Yes, though I think the vinyl in that box may be the original mix, but you'd have to read about 400 pages of the Steve Hoffman forum to find out for sure! I know that is the box for which the rather controversial back to multitrack remix was done.
Click to expand...
 
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