Optimum VTF for a Goldring Troika retip
- Thread starter Chris
- Start date
wylton
Naim and Mana member
Good question. As Vinny said the specs say 1.5 - 1.7 and I've always gone towards the top of the range for tracking security. I have a Goldring rebuilt Troika and your question has made me think twice because I've just set it and left it, whereas I ought to set it by listening; I'll report back!
wylton
Naim and Mana member
https://www.flickr.com/photos/145780846@N05/
So, I've just had a fiddle and I've ended up at a shade under 1.7g using the digital scales, around 17mN, on the scales provided with the Aro.
Chris
pfm Member
Thanks Wylton. The reason I originally asked was because my A&RP77, after having been retipped with a hyper elliptical and having its suspension and magnet shape rechooned to increase output to please my valve phono saw its vtf dropped from 1.8 to 1.4. I didn´t like to ask why ´cos I wouldn´t have fully understood anyway. During my 1960s UK Grammar School education I was taught not to ask questions. Ours was not to reason why ............
yeti42
pfm Member
You look to be using an Aro. In the Aro manual it has a conversion from the scale on the ortofon gauge reading to the actual VTF but it assumes that a Linn mat has been removed from the platter to make the measurement. On a deck without a removable mat the reading on the scale will be higher than the VTF for any reading taken above record surface height as the centre of gravity of an Aro is below the height of the pivot, and with a VTF set, forward of it, therefore raising the front of the arm will move it further from the pivot. When I set up a 17D3 on my Aro the reading on my digital balance for the setting that sounded best was 2.24g, the same cartridge when I used it on a Rega arm sounded its best at 1.95g. My deck at the time didn't have a removable mat.
Use your ears to find the best setting of the counterweight, use the balance to keep track of where you are but don’t expect the readings to be accurate, though we can hope they will have some precision. They will likely be alarmingly high.
Use your ears to find the best setting of the counterweight, use the balance to keep track of where you are but don’t expect the readings to be accurate, though we can hope they will have some precision. They will likely be alarmingly high.
wylton
Naim and Mana member
Yes, you make a good point there and that is a good explanation of the geometry of the Aro; I didn’t quite understand it in the manual tbh. I used the pictures as a reference for precisely that reason. The Michell doesn't have a mat, so I used a solid mat which is approximately the same thickness as an LP, so, hopefully, it won't be far out. I think that the VTF I'm using now, can't be far off, because the treble sounds sweet and the bass is pretty tight; I think if I use more downforce, the bass will loosen and if I use less downforce, the top end will become more prominent. As you say, you need the scales to ensure you are within the limits of the spec.
Just checked my ARO / Goldring Troika. I was using a digital scale (with mat off) set at 1.7g. Looking though at the Naim manual for an effective 1.7g the Ortofon scale should be set at 19mN. Setting the arm to give ~ 19mN gives as expected per the Naim manual around 1.94g. I will play around with this higher setting and report back.
wylton
Naim and Mana member
Cool; it will be interesting to hear what you think.
Mike Reed
pfm Member
During my fifties grammar school (lower case
) education I was only concerned by the question of why I was there at all while lesser sec. mod. mortals among friends were earning good money. A decade later I became aware. I can't remember what I played my Karma at, but I guess around 1.75g wouldn't be far out. Can't see what enormous difference a re-tip would make, but it's always best to err on the heavier side and come down rather than t'other way round. I think between a rather dull sound and mistracking is a lot of happy medium for trial and error, i.m.o.
OK, initial impression was that at 1.94g measured with a digital scale was pretty good, bass was quite a lot heavier though to a point where I think I was getting a bit of deep bass resonance or feedback with bass heavy tracks. I will play around a bit more as the evening goes on - I find that critical listening needs darkness! I was surprised the difference 0.2g tracking weight made, I suspect that a unipivot without damping is perhaps more sensitive than other designs?
Mike Reed
pfm Member
Even though there are so many factors here; cart. design, arm capabilities, other set-up parameters (VTA/SRA etc.) that 2g difference you mention equates to around 12% of the recommended VTF. Heavier, duller bass does indicate a VTF which is too high. Can't think why the pivot design should be of greater influence than other factors, though.