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Opinions on Bang & Olufsen turntables.

gerlando

Prog Rocker
Hello there,

sorry, what is your opinion on the B&O Turntable, especially the ones with tangential arms (for example the Beogram 3300 with MMC4 cartridge)?

Thank you very much.
Mauro
 
I understood that the cartridges and spare parts in general are pretty much unobtainium, but I could be wrong.
 
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I had a tangential one and wasn't super happy with it, though it wasn't one of the sought-after ones.

I do have one of the better pivoted arm ones - the one with a built-in dust cover lights and love it.

The cart is a retipped one from a guru in Denmark - sapphire cantilever - MMC2.

Plug and forget good sounding deck for maybe ~$750 total.
 
I have as few 8002s we high I intend to set up when I can and listen properly.. mmc2s and an unused mmc1 so should be interesting...
 
I had a 4004 in the early 80s and enjoyed it. The only thing to remember is that they come with a DIN plug. I needed an earth lead to connect to the earthing point on my amp.
 
I understood that the cartridges and spare parts in general are pretty much unobtainium, but I could be wrong.
You are!
All available from the Soundsmith website.
Edit:
Woops sorry John!
I have a Beogram 4000, a Beogram 8000 among others. Great, underrated decks.
The 3300 is less sophisticated – it is a 5005 in essence – but it will give any new budget decks a run for their money.
 
Beobloke of this parish probably has a shedload of them.

No doubt he'll be along soon.

Not really a shedload, no, I'm down to five at the moment - a1960s Beogram 3000, an 80's Beogram 2000, plus a 4002, a 5000 and an 8002

So, then, B&O turntables. They’re a little bit of a minefield to be honest and you have to ask yourself whether you want one as a second deck to look nice and be fun to use, or you want something that will properly embarrass some modern gear, as both options are available. Do be aware of the cartridge situation that has already been mentioned – they are proprietary and expensive but if you’re not put off by this then let’s go…

First up you mention linear tracking and the Beogram 3300 and this definitely comes under the category of decks that are nice to look at, easy to use and pleasant to listen to. There’s a huge range available, as the Beogram TX2, 3000, 3300, 3500, 4500, 5005, 5500, 6500, 7000, 8500 and 9500 are basically all the same thing. There are styling differences and some have built-in RIAA preamplifiers but other than that, they are much of a muchness. These were B&O’s last turntables and remain popular and hold their prices well. They’re generally reliable, the mechanism is a masterpiece of efficiency and they’re actually a pleasure to service – believe me, these are three words that rarely apply to B&O! All in all they’re lovely to look at, nice to use and kind to your records. If you've got your heart set on a 3300 with MMC4, it’s a decent price and you can see it working, then go for it. If you change your mind, you’ll easily get your money back on it.

The only problems is….well, basically, these later linear trackers don’t sound all that great. As I mentioned they’re pleasant and sweet to listen to but they don’t get the best out of the MMCx series cartridges, which really are very good. These linear decks replaced the last range of radial tracking designs which included the Beogram RX2, 1800, 2000 and 5000 and, frankly, these are far better sounding units that are also less popular and cheaper. If you’re looking at this sort of era of deck and linear tracking isn’t a must, then my pick would be the 1980s Beogram 2000 with an MMC4 - I’d personally take one over the likes of a Rega P3.

So, then, what about a linear tracking deck to take on the big boys? Well, this is easy, you have a choice of three:

Beogram 4000 – this was where linear tracking started for B&O and in some ways it’s still the best. Belt drive, built like a tank, an absolute design classic and sound superb. Stick an MMC6000 or MMC20CL in and you’ll wonder exactly how far turntable progress has come in the last 40 years. The downside is they are complex beasts with lots of operation controlled by mechanical microswitches and they are not a beginner’s job to service. They’re also going up in value – a decently fettled one with a good cartridge will set you back four figures. And to think, I bought a mint, boxed one for £4 at a car boot sale 30 years ago. *sigh*. The later 4002 and 4004 models are also very capable but don't seem to perform quite as well as the original 4000.

Beogram 8000/8002 – these were the peak of B&O’s linear tracking designs and both use a direct drive linear motor that performs magnificently. The two are basically the same but the 8000 takes the earlier MMC20x series cartridges and the 8002 takes the later MMCx range (the same as used in the Beogram 3300). My friend Tim the B&O guru has an 8000 as he prefers the MMC20CL cartridge and I have an 8002 with a rebuilt MMC2 but there really isn’t much to choose between them. Sound quality–wise this is as good as it gets with B&O turntables and they will wipe the floor with many modern designs costing well into four figures. The downsides? They are computer controlled and hideously complex. Aging capacitors cause all sorts of odd behaviour and the 4000's mechanical microswitches gave way to optical sensors and the failure of one of these can bring things to a halt. Worst of all, if the main control IC throws a double six and rolls over, then that’s the end of the deck, although thankfully this is a rare occurrence. The ingenious electronic design must also have soaked up most of the development costs as build quality is a bit shoddy. Most of the panels are stuck on with double-side sticky tape that has a foam core. The foam rots, just like an old speaker surround, and the silver panels around the platter and covering the arm literally fall off them as they get older, which is, frankly, disgraceful! Then again, it’s not difficult to sort out, so horses for courses.

Anyway, sorry, I’ve been rambling so I feel a summary is in order:

Beogram 3300/MMC4 – not a bad choice at all but not the best sound quality you can obtain from a B&O record deck.

If you fancy better quality, similar styling, a lower price and will forgo linear tracking: Beogram RX2, 1800 or 2000 with the same MMC4

If you want the best B&O linear tracker you can buy – Beogram 8002
 
Hello Beobloke,

thank you so much for the excellent, very comprehensive explanation.

In fact, I'd really like to try one of these turntables (not as main deck), whose design and aesthetic is superb.

I have found these items:
http://rover.ebay.com/rover/1/710-5...0001&campid=5338728743&icep_item=233640512751

http://rover.ebay.com/rover/1/710-5...0001&campid=5338728743&icep_item=184354730352

I am however a little frightened by the possible problems that arise in these vintage devices, as well as by the need to have a dedicated cartridge (are they MM or MC? what kind of phono stage do they need?) and a DIN-RCA interface for connection.

I will think about it.

Many thanks.
Cheers.
Mauro
 
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Either of those decks should be fine as they look to be in decent fettle and are (allegedly!) working. If you're having either shipped then, in addition to all the usual caveats that apply to shipping a turntable, make sure the seller removes the platters (and the counterweight in the case of the BG1800) and locks the suspension down.

Don't be put off by the DIN connectors as off-the shelf adaptors are readily available. Alternatively, look out for the RX2 (radial tracking) and TX2 (linear tracking) models - these were designed to be used with equipment other than B&O and have phono plugs as standard.

All of the cartridges, no matter what age, are actually Moving Iron types but you can just treat them as an MM and they will work fine, although they do have a slightly lower output than most standard MMs.
 
Bought a Beogram 1700 turntable on eBay from a charity for around £50. It turned out to be fitted with a top of the line MMC20CL cartridge and it sounds exception and absolutely tranced my then Rega RP3.
I also own a pair of active Beolab 9 speakers which are up there with the very best.
Bang & Olufsen gear is often written off as merely "lifestyle' but some of their gear is quite exceptional and although expensive when new can be an amazing bargain when bought second hand.
 
Not really a shedload, no, I'm down to five at the moment - a1960s Beogram 3000, an 80's Beogram 2000, plus a 4002, a 5000 and an 8002

So, then, B&O turntables. They’re a little bit of a minefield to be honest and you have to ask yourself whether you want one as a second deck to look nice and be fun to use, or you want something that will properly embarrass some modern gear, as both options are available. Do be aware of the cartridge situation that has already been mentioned – they are proprietary and expensive but if you’re not put off by this then let’s go…

First up you mention linear tracking and the Beogram 3300 and this definitely comes under the category of decks that are nice to look at, easy to use and pleasant to listen to. There’s a huge range available, as the Beogram TX2, 3000, 3300, 3500, 4500, 5005, 5500, 6500, 7000, 8500 and 9500 are basically all the same thing. There are styling differences and some have built-in RIAA preamplifiers but other than that, they are much of a muchness. These were B&O’s last turntables and remain popular and hold their prices well. They’re generally reliable, the mechanism is a masterpiece of efficiency and they’re actually a pleasure to service – believe me, these are three words that rarely apply to B&O! All in all they’re lovely to look at, nice to use and kind to your records. If you've got your heart set on a 3300 with MMC4, it’s a decent price and you can see it working, then go for it. If you change your mind, you’ll easily get your money back on it.

The only problems is….well, basically, these later linear trackers don’t sound all that great. As I mentioned they’re pleasant and sweet to listen to but they don’t get the best out of the MMCx series cartridges, which really are very good. These linear decks replaced the last range of radial tracking designs which included the Beogram RX2, 1800, 2000 and 5000 and, frankly, these are far better sounding units that are also less popular and cheaper. If you’re looking at this sort of era of deck and linear tracking isn’t a must, then my pick would be the 1980s Beogram 2000 with an MMC4 - I’d personally take one over the likes of a Rega P3.

So, then, what about a linear tracking deck to take on the big boys? Well, this is easy, you have a choice of three:

Beogram 4000 – this was where linear tracking started for B&O and in some ways it’s still the best. Belt drive, built like a tank, an absolute design classic and sound superb. Stick an MMC6000 or MMC20CL in and you’ll wonder exactly how far turntable progress has come in the last 40 years. The downside is they are complex beasts with lots of operation controlled by mechanical microswitches and they are not a beginner’s job to service. They’re also going up in value – a decently fettled one with a good cartridge will set you back four figures. And to think, I bought a mint, boxed one for £4 at a car boot sale 30 years ago. *sigh*. The later 4002 and 4004 models are also very capable but don't seem to perform quite as well as the original 4000.

Beogram 8000/8002 – these were the peak of B&O’s linear tracking designs and both use a direct drive linear motor that performs magnificently. The two are basically the same but the 8000 takes the earlier MMC20x series cartridges and the 8002 takes the later MMCx range (the same as used in the Beogram 3300). My friend Tim the B&O guru has an 8000 as he prefers the MMC20CL cartridge and I have an 8002 with a rebuilt MMC2 but there really isn’t much to choose between them. Sound quality–wise this is as good as it gets with B&O turntables and they will wipe the floor with many modern designs costing well into four figures. The downsides? They are computer controlled and hideously complex. Aging capacitors cause all sorts of odd behaviour and the 4000's mechanical microswitches gave way to optical sensors and the failure of one of these can bring things to a halt. Worst of all, if the main control IC throws a double six and rolls over, then that’s the end of the deck, although thankfully this is a rare occurrence. The ingenious electronic design must also have soaked up most of the development costs as build quality is a bit shoddy. Most of the panels are stuck on with double-side sticky tape that has a foam core. The foam rots, just like an old speaker surround, and the silver panels around the platter and covering the arm literally fall off them as they get older, which is, frankly, disgraceful! Then again, it’s not difficult to sort out, so horses for courses.

Anyway, sorry, I’ve been rambling so I feel a summary is in order:

Beogram 3300/MMC4 – not a bad choice at all but not the best sound quality you can obtain from a B&O record deck.

If you fancy better quality, similar styling, a lower price and will forgo linear tracking: Beogram RX2, 1800 or 2000 with the same MMC4

If you want the best B&O linear tracker you can buy – Beogram 8002

...rare thing on forums, true knowledge! Not only am I in awe of your expertise on these Turntables but also of the way you communicate the facts and your conclusions. Top stuff.
 
I read this old thread with interest. One thing to bear in mind is this: while some Beogram turntables may not be the absolute best in terms of sound quality, when compared to what one can buy for the same price for a new turntable, then the Beogram is likely to be a better bet.

Of course, there's the caveat about old stuff breaking, but we're sensible people, we understand this already.

Cartridges and styli can be an issue, or people think so. Not really true. A new stylus is good for about 1000 hours of play, albeit for some people they might choose to replace sooner. That's about a year of use playing 3 albums per day. I enjoy my music, but I expect my stylus to last for five years! The automatic handling of playback means one is less likely to damage a stylus and the tracking weights are very low so wear should be minimised.

I have a Beogram 6500, a linear tracker with a built-in RIAA preamplifier. I paid, including a new stylus, just over £500 for a mint looking example that had been returned before I purchased it. While I do not have comparisons to make, it seems hard to think that I could buy a new, better sounding, turntable for the same money.
 
Glad this piece of information was left here, have owned several Beo decks over the years and just sold a Sanusi DD that I've decided to replace with something about more suitable to the home decor.... by that I mean Screams Mid-century modern.

Was considering the 8000/8002 slightly concerned about the incredibly complex direct drive mech and design. I mean shits amazing! But what does that mean for me as someone using a 40 year old deck.

I'd also be curious to see what beoblokes thoughts were on the 6002 which I know is back to a belt drive mech and still uses the 4k style screw mech unlike the later series. 6006 is also a beauty, rare aswell and from my knowledge a lower build quality version of the 8002.

Primarily considering a 6002 purely for cost, with what the cost a 4000/8000 thesedays I don't think I could justify it, especially with so few being actually serviced too. Where as a 6002 can be 1/4 of the price, now I suppose the big question is... is it that much of a loss in performance? and is it closer to the 4000 or the lesser quality late series.

Would appreciate any thoughts of comments.
 
The Beogram 6006 was basically a slightly cost-reduced 8000 and the 6002 was indeed effectively a cunningly re-packaged 4002 to match the Beomaster 6000 as part of the Beolab 6000 system. More details here:https://beocentral.com/tangential-turntables

On this basis, either would be well worthy of consideration as more affordable alternatives to the 8000/8002. I've not heard a 6002 but would expect it to have more in common with the 4002. However, it takes the later MMCx cartridges rather than the older MMC20x types, so it may come down to which of these you prefer. I like the MMCx models but, as mentioned previously, my friend Tim prefers the MMC20x models. To be honest, I don't think you'll be disappointed with either!
 


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