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Oh Britain, what have you done (part ∞+4)?

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Vinniemac said:
The economic meltdown scenario applies if we crash out without a deal. Which is becoming increasingly possible the way this incompetent and deluded government is currently collapsing around our ears.
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It doesn't though - not according to the forecasting - athough it is certainly worse than both soft Brexit or remaining in the EU. Why not read the link I've posted several times already (I'm not going to post it again since everybody just ignores it anyway). However, I agree that a sudden exit with no deal could cause some disruption in the short term.
 
TheDecameron said:
Raaab has consistently voted to cut welfare and reduce taxes on the wealthy. He is a stealth NHS privatiser and for the first generation son of East European immigrants to the U.K, unusually keen on stopping anyone else getting over the drawbridge he is intent on building- he’s voted to withdraw the right to remain for EU nationals.
So, Labour supporters- get behind Raaab to make Brexit a success!
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Nah, Raab is a complete d*ck.
 
Vinniemac said:
The economic meltdown scenario applies if we crash out without a deal. Which is becoming increasingly possible the way this incompetent and deluded government is currently collapsing around our ears.
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I recall the main justification for voting for the EEA amendment was that it might cause the government to collapse. Now that it's actually possible that the government will collapse this is a terrible thing.

FWIW I don't think it's going to.The Daily Mail headlines right now are running with a fairly neutral headline about Davis, followed by a sentimental one about Rees Mogg praising Davis, followed by brave Theresa "battling to retain control of her party", followed by...Labour overtaking Conservatives in the polls. I think everyone has their instructions.
 
droodzilla said:
which is one of the arguments you use to justify overturning the vote
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it's not so much a case of overturning the vote, but rather explaining to the electorate why it should not have been allowed to proceed in the manner in which it did in the first place. it was overtly skewed, dumbed-down, inadequately debated and with no real time taken for analysis of the effects of possible outcomes and proper and full explanation of these made to the electorate...no plan in place for the result. and covertly, it was taking place with dubious funding, backers and motives. i don't in any way see that as being a fair and proper implementation of a democratic process. the role of the media in playing to the prejudices of the electorate should have been made plain and not quietly enjoyed by the leave, hard-right campaign. any recession now will no doubt engender much suffering and probably death, directly and indirectly. all of this, and more, makes me seethe with the illegal wrong of it all and to rationalise that there should be a justification for 'overturning the vote' doubly so.
 
HairyHaggis said:
it's not so much a case of overturning the vote, but rather explaining to the electorate why it should not have been allowed to proceed in the manner in which it did in the first place. it was overtly skewed, dumbed-down, inadequately debated and with no real time taken for analysis of the effects of possible outcomes and proper and full explanation of these made to the electorate...no plan in place for the result. and covertly, it was taking place with dubious funding, backers and motives. i don't in any way see that as being a fair and proper implementation of a democratic process. the role of the media in playing to the prejudices of the electorate should have been made plain and not quietly enjoyed by the leave, hard-right campaign. any recession now will no doubt engender much suffering and probably death, directly and indirectly. all of this, and more, makes me seethe with the illegal wrong of it all and to rationalise that there should be a justification for 'overturning the vote' doubly so.
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You're not supposed to mention the vote!


Stephen
 
^yup, let us have full view of the Brexit the government has negotiated for us and put the reality, not the lie to a referendum.
 
Seanm said:
I recall the main justification for voting for the EEA amendment was that it might cause the government to collapse. Now that it's actually possible that the government will collapse this is a terrible thing.

FWIW I don't think it's going to.The Daily Mail headlines right now are running with a fairly neutral headline about Davis, followed by a sentimental one about Rees Mogg praising Davis, followed by brave Theresa "battling to retain control of her party", followed by...Labour overtaking Conservatives in the polls. I think everyone has their instructions.
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While I would *love* to see the back of this government, it seems to be collapsing just in time to make it impossible for a deal to be done with the EU. That’s what’s worrying me. Perhaps paralysis would be a better word to describe what’s happening rather than collapse. Even if there is a leadership challenge to May, and she is replaced, I don’t see the Tories repeating the mistake of last year by calling another GE. I fear we’re stuck with this government for another four years.
 
TheDecameron said:
^yup, let us have full view of the Brexit the government has negotiated for us and put the reality, not the lie to a referendum.
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Not impossible. Much easier for Labour to push for one now that the Tories have come down decisively in favour of soft Brexit. But the Reversers will have to let them.
 
notaclue said:
A Brexiteer and a former supporter of Mogg's ERG. So looks like a desperate attempt to keep the party together.

Another fine mess.
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Raab is a gift to those who want to convert working class leavers. Here's a paper he authored in 2011, making an explicitly anti-worker case for further deregulation of the labour market:

https://www.cps.org.uk/files/reports/original/111114155257-escapingthestraitjacket.pdf

And there's more: Britannia Unchained, co-authored with several other complete bastards from the 2010 intake:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Britannia_Unchained

Includes this classic:

The British are among the worst idlers in the world. We work among the lowest hours, we retire early and our productivity is poor. Whereas Indian children aspire to be doctors or businessmen, the British are more interested in football and pop music.
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Caused quite a fuss at the time although I have no memory of it. Everyone should now learn that quote by heart though.
 
I'm beyond most of this now to be honest, the bare facts are as I see them are these...

The EU is a political/trade construct. The UK just wants a trade arrangement, but that discounts both reality and that the EU is the most successful multi-national co-operation arrangement...ever. Semi-integrated culturally, economically and everything else lly, for 40 years. We, the UK, should be proud of that, we helped build it.

Leaving arrangements will be solely be on the EU's terms...eventually. The options are reasonable given we are a quasi-hostile state that needs their agreement to ensure a previously agreed peace agreement on our border remains intact. Reality IS finally beginning to bite, the referendum promised the impossible and DD knows that so he's off. Boris will be off soon and every other rat that never had a plan, just a few sound-bites to please their chums and the masses (who really just wanted to protest about how left behind they felt).

Eventually, we will collectively realise the damage domestically and internationally. Someone, is going to have to tell the truth of our options to the people. We may possibly save ourselves from most of the damage. Otherwise, it will be the death of "sovereignty" by a thousand cuts...over many years...becoming more and more humiliated at each roll of the dice.
 
droodzilla said:
Tony, Dec, we have a fundamental point of disagreement. I believe (after some soul-searching) that the referendum vote ought to be honoured; you don't.

Most of my recent posts have focused on the claim that Brexit "will almost inevitably send the nation into another deep recession", which is one of the arguments you use to justify overturning the vote. I've looked at the evidence and I don't see how that claim can be justified.

Being 97% as well off as we would have been had we stayed in the EU does not qualify as economic meltdown in my book and (simply put) I would rather have a Labour government with £97 to play with than a Tory government with £100.
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How about something relevant to the current possible situation and up to date, as this possibly would be
https://news.sky.com/story/theresa-may-asks-treasury-for-brexit-analysis-11424409
 
Seanm said:
Not impossible. Much easier for Labour to push for one now that the Tories have come down decisively in favour of soft Brexit. But the Reversers will have to let them.
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It won’t happen. Corbyn doesn’t want us in the EU and forming policy on the basis of what party members want only seems to apply when they agree with him.

Meanwhile we have a government that can’t even agree amongst itself supposedly negotiating with the EU. It’s going to get worse, much worse.
 
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