advertisement


Oh Britain, what have you done (part ∞+25)?

Status
Not open for further replies.
Ah ET I asked you a simple question is there any democracy that rocks your boat that you reckon is the utopia that should be pursued? No answer. Surely that is an easy one?

All your huge lengthy posts are just opinions with a host of facts jumbled around. I have lived in Ireland all my life. We are on a different planet now compared to the sixties and seventies.
EU membership and getting out from the stranglehold of the UK has brought huge prosperity. Yes definitely like a lot of democracies including the UK who were not in the Euro we had a banking crisis.
The US had a meltdown also. Asian economies have had recessions etc etc. You mangle a range of facts and present them as a negative and all down to EU membership. Sorry it is not a coherent and is not true. It is your opinion so fine have it.

Our fishing industry for example is like the UK's was way underdeveloped. The mistake our government and country made at that time was not to get their act together and get a decent fleet together to compete. We are learning as we go.
As so many others have pointed out to you the EU is ultimately a win for members. You can't think like Boris and expect that you have to take everything and give nothing. That is how he appears to act in his private life. His vision for the UK is similar. It aint' going to happen. He might get his Brexit but it will not be pretty for the majority.
You wont make a dent in what passes for logic in the ET world. After all, what do you know?
 
Nothing to do with retaliation. If the EU continues to obstruct the commencement of trade negotiations everyone is going to take a hit, but no country more so than Ireland.

Negotiations ‘commenced’ when we served A50. What the UK want is unilateral reopening of the completed negotiations on non-negotiable UK terms.

We do not have a new Government with a new mandate who can realistically expect this to happen. If Johnson wants to be taken seriously he needs to go to the country and win a majority.

The EU wanted some guarantees before trade talks commenced. Johnson’s rhetoric demonstrates clearly they were right to do so.

Stephen
 
Perfect excercise in deflection from ET. Ireland is now the problem not Brexit. Strategy straight out of BJ school of economic debate. Still no response to the simple question about his favourite democracy.

Reading a short article in the Irish Indo this morning. UK economy grew 61% between 1995 and 2018. EU average was 49%. Another interesting stat, Irish trade with the rest of the world is 212pc of GDP. Germany is 87pc. Irelands high tec exports might help it cope with the impending recession more than Germany due to the latters higher dependency on heavy industrial products. Stat was 35pc for Ireland compared to 15.1pc in Germany for high tec exports.
Not forgetting we are a country with a population similar to the Birmingham area and more dependent on multinationals.

Brexit is an unnecessary disaster in times that are troubling enough already. Instead of jointly working with its EU partners to try and ensure europe is best placed to get a big slice of the next industrial revolution it flutes around with the egos of BJ farage mogg rabb etc. We all deserve better than that team. Give me EU federalism any day over those people.
 
Last edited:
Ah ET I asked you a simple question is there any democracy that rocks your boat that you reckon is the utopia that should be pursued? No answer. Surely that is an easy one?ce

All your huge lengthy posts are just opinions with a host of facts jumbled around. I have lived in Ireland all my life. We are on a different planet now compared to the sixties and seventies.
EU membership and getting out from the stranglehold of the UK has brought huge prosperity. Yes definitely like a lot of democracies including the UK who were not in the Euro we had a banking crisis.
The US had a meltdown also. Asian economies have had recessions etc etc. You mangle a range of facts and present them as a negative and all down to EU membership. Sorry it is not a coherent and is not true. It is your opinion so fine have it.

Our fishing industry for example is like the UK's was way underdeveloped. The mistake our government and country made at that time was not to get their act together and get a decent fleet together to compete. We are learning as we go.
As so many others have pointed out to you the EU is ultimately a win for members. You can't think like Boris and expect that you have to take everything and give nothing. That is how he appears to act in his private life. His vision for the UK is similar. It aint' going to happen. He might get his Brexit but it will not be pretty for the majority.

There is a similarity between a household budget and a countries budget. When loans cannot be repaid the banks want their money back. With households they take the roof from over your head or other assets with countries they take state assets. Greece and Italy are recent examples of countries having to sell state assets to survive.
Sometimes it is hailed in the media as the bounteous EU coming to the aid of a member state in need of help; in reality it is more loans and the repo man will follow if they default on payments.
 
There is a similarity between a household budget and a countries budget. When loans cannot be repaid the banks want their money back

There's a difference between a household budget and a country's budget. When loans cannot be repaid the country can increase taxation and/or print more money/
 
There is a similarity between a household budget and a countries budget. When loans cannot be repaid the banks want their money back. With households they take the roof from over your head or other assets with countries they take state assets. Greece and Italy are recent examples of countries having to sell state assets to survive.
Sometimes it is hailed in the media as the bounteous EU coming to the aid of a member state in need of help; in reality it is more loans and the repo man will follow if they default on payments.

Nothing to do with trying to repay loans while adopting an almost voluntary attitude to taxation and pretending your country can still afford early retirement ages that would make our civil service blush then?

It makes me laugh thay Brexiteers citing the EU's treatment of Greece as somehow unreasonable and usually the first to go on about our own state benefits, civil service guaranteed pensions or early retirement ages and so on.
 
Nothing to do with trying to repay loans while adopting an almost voluntary attitude to taxation and pretending your country can still afford early retirement ages that would make our civil service blush then?

It makes me laugh thay Brexiteers citing the EU's treatment of Greece as somehow unreasonable and usually the first to go on about our own state benefits, civil service guaranteed pensions or early retirement ages and so on.
The entire commentary on the Greek financial crisis coming from the Tory Party, UKIP, Telegraph etc at the time was “ how much are we exposed to this!?” “How can we get our money back out of them?” so I find this yet another UKIP diversion special. A diversion from the financial disaster called Brexit, cooked up and sold to Britain by Farage and half the Tory Party. File under UKIP talking points No.35.
 
The point I'm making is that your idea that there's a similarity between a household budget and a state's budget is cobblers.

Still, Johnson will be able to finance his borrowing on minus interest rates soon. Imagine if we'd have invested in 2008 with historically low-rates rather than contracted?

We were still an AAA credit-rating country then. Now, post-refrendum, we are AA with a 'negative watch' flag.

Argentina just secured this amazing 100-year mortgage deal. And a free pen.

Stephen
 
Darn, the pound is starting to recover against the Swiss franc. This may mean that I'll only be able to buy Scotland and Northern Ireland instead of the entire UK, when I visit in a couple of weeks' time. Still, I guess this has the potential to make lots of people very happy.
 
Please could you consider buying Manchester? We voted to stay, I’m happy to organise weekly singalongs of Gilbert and Sullivanesque parody in your honour if it helps?
I am the very model of a non-Brexit Mancunian

I’d dearly love to keep right on being a Europ-pe-e-an

We’d Boris stall and build a wall rivalling that of Hadrian

T’would also serve the purposes of keeping out the gammion

And then perhaps secede and become capital of Irel-land

Which would the population of that little country higher, and

Enable it to get even more largesse from Brussels

And give the little land proportionately much more muscle

(And give the little land proportionately much more muscle

And give the little land proportionately much more muscle

And give the little land proportionately much more mu-u-u-u-u-u-u-u-u-uscle!)

And maybe this could finally promote some Irish unity

And who knows? Bring in Nicola into EU Community!

In short, in matters EU (not to mention some pecuniam)

I am the very model of a non-Brexit Mancunian
 
Last edited:
Ah ET I asked you a simple question is there any democracy that rocks your boat that you reckon is the utopia that should be pursued? No answer. Surely that is an easy one?

I didn't bother to answer it because it is a deflection, and absurd. However, since you clearly won't give up, how's this for a stab, at least in response to the question of a democracy that can live up to the name. Forget the utopia cobblers. It clearly isn't the European Union, which is not merely undemocratic, but quite intentionally so, all the worse because of the cynical theatre of democratic credential. How about the Republic of Ireland between 1937 and 1972, as we're on that topic. An albeit imperfect PR voting system, and a constitution based upon the premise that sovereignty and law reside with the people, so that any proposed changes to the constitution have to be referred to the people at referendum. Had the UK had such a system, it is very unlikely that we would be where we are now. Sadly, Ireland's populace was hoodwinked by successive generations of Europhile politicians, career diplomats, civil servants and journalists, and seduced by the European cash-cow, into surrendering that hard-won if short-lived democratic independence. It is now merely a colony of Brussels, governed by Brussels puppets, and its democracy is effectively a sham. De Valera, who is widely believed to have voted against accession in 1972, is quoted as having said on the eve of accession 'I am the first and last President of an Independent Irish Republic'.

All your huge lengthy posts are just opinions with a host of facts jumbled around. I have lived in Ireland all my life. We are on a different planet now compared to the sixties and seventies. EU membership and getting out from the stranglehold of the UK has brought huge prosperity. Yes definitely like a lot of democracies including the UK who were not in the Euro we had a banking crisis.The US had a meltdown also. Asian economies have had recessions etc etc. You mangle a range of facts and present them as a negative and all down to EU membership. Sorry it is not a coherent and is not true. It is your opinion so fine have it.

Every country on the globe is 'on a different planet' (?) to the 1960s and 70s. Take China, for example, in which the EU has been responsible for lifting multiples of millions of people out of poverty. Or the US, where the EU has been responsible for creating the most dynamic economy on earth, or Brazil or India, where everyone would still be living in huts on stilts in the Ganges and Amazon if it weren't for the EU.

It is highly questionable that the EU has brought 'huge prosperity' to Ireland. The figures don't support it, and the combination of the banking and Eurozone crisis brought the country to its knees, and left it with massive debts repayable to the Troika at scandalous interest rates. The Euro has been an unmitigated disaster for the Republic, and will continue to be so. Ireland's 'Celtic Tiger' boom was underpinned by a floating exchange rate in addition to the notorious low interest rates and banking incontinence, and its current prosperity is due to the government's favourable tax strategems, which have been very effective at attracting US multinationals. Those tax advantages are under severe threat from EU tax harmonisation intentions and indeed requirements, and the proposed EU digital tax surcharges.

Oh, and when did Ireland 'get out from the stranglehold of the UK'? 1922, or 1937? There was half a century between 1922 and 1972! Or are you referring to the fact that Irish (not British) policymakers, of their own free will, pegged the Punt to Sterling from 1922 to 1979 at what was often an unsuitable rate for the Irish economy?

Our fishing industry for example is like the UK's was way underdeveloped. The mistake our government and country made at that time was not to get their act together and get a decent fleet together to compete. We are learning as we go.

The fact that the fishing fleet was underdeveloped then is immaterial. All that matters is that Ireland surrendered its fishing waters to pillage by the very well developed French & Spanish fleets in 1972. I haven't checked, but have read that Eurostat figures show that Irish waters would have yielded a value of multiples of all of the cash that the country has received from German, French and British taxpayers since 1972 had they been retained by Ireland. The mistake your government (and ours) made was to surrender those waters to the EEC.

As so many others have pointed out to you the EU is ultimately a win for members.

People keep patronising me with this 'as we've all pointed out to you time and again' cobblers. I don't give a ff what people choose to point out to me if what they're pointing out is palpably wrong. What you have just pointed out is palpably and demonstrably wrong.
 
I didn't bother to answer it because it is a deflection, and absurd. However, since you clearly won't give up, how's this for a stab, at least in response to the question of a democracy that can live up to the name. Forget the utopia cobblers. It clearly isn't the European Union, which is not merely undemocratic, but quite intentionally so, all the worse because of the cynical theatre of democratic credential. How about the Republic of Ireland between 1937 and 1972, as we're on that topic. An albeit imperfect PR voting system, and a constitution based upon the premise that sovereignty and law reside with the people, so that any proposed changes to the constitution have to be referred to the people at referendum. Had the UK had such a system, it is very unlikely that we would be where we are now. Sadly, Ireland's populace was hoodwinked by successive generations of Europhile politicians, career diplomats, civil servants and journalists, and seduced by the European cash-cow, into surrendering that hard-won if short-lived democratic independence. It is now merely a colony of Brussels, governed by Brussels puppets, and its democracy is effectively a sham. De Valera, who is widely believed to have voted against accession in 1972, is quoted as having said on the eve of accession 'I am the first and last President of an Independent Irish Republic'.



Every country on the globe is 'on a different planet' (?) to the 1960s and 70s. Take China, for example, in which the EU has been responsible for lifting multiples of millions of people out of poverty. Or the US, where the EU has been responsible for creating the most dynamic economy on earth, or Brazil or India, where everyone would still be living in huts on stilts in the Ganges and Amazon if it weren't for the EU.

It is highly questionable that the EU has brought 'huge prosperity' to Ireland. The figures don't support it, and the combination of the banking and Eurozone crisis brought the country to its knees, and left it with massive debts repayable to the Troika at scandalous interest rates. The Euro has been an unmitigated disaster for the Republic, and will continue to be so. Ireland's 'Celtic Tiger' boom was underpinned by a floating exchange rate in addition to the notorious low interest rates and banking incontinence, and its current prosperity is due to the government's favourable tax strategems, which have been very effective at attracting US multinationals. Those tax advantages are under severe threat from EU tax harmonisation intentions and indeed requirements, and the proposed EU digital tax surcharges.

Oh, and when did Ireland 'get out from the stranglehold of the UK'? 1922, or 1937? There was half a century between 1922 and 1972! Or are you referring to the fact that Irish (not British) policymakers, of their own free will, pegged the Punt to Sterling from 1922 to 1979 at what was often an unsuitable rate for the Irish economy?



The fact that the fishing fleet was underdeveloped then is immaterial. All that matters is that Ireland surrendered its fishing waters to pillage by the very well developed French & Spanish fleets in 1972. I haven't checked, but have read that Eurostat figures show that Irish waters would have yielded a value of multiples of all of the cash that the country has received from German, French and British taxpayers since 1972 had they been retained by Ireland. The mistake your government (and ours) made was to surrender those waters to the EEC.



People keep patronising me with this 'as we've all pointed out to you time and again' cobblers. I don't give a ff what people choose to point out to me if what they're pointing out is palpably wrong. What you have just pointed out is palpably and demonstrably wrong.
Bejabers...
 
People keep patronising me with this 'as we've all pointed out to you time and again' cobblers.
I don't give a ff what people choose to point out to me if what they're pointing out is palpably wrong.
What you have just pointed out is palpably and demonstrably wrong.

hqdefault.jpg
 
Is that short for "More bollocks"?

Jack
It is fascinating though how EV can argue with an Irishman (tonerei) about the economic and political realities of...err....living in Ireland. It reeks of old colonial condescension. Ireland has thrived away from the orbit of England and is set to take the title of anglophone gateway to the EU which can only attract even more giant U.S companies to Dublin. Which makes the proposition by some Tory ministers a year ago, that the border problem could be solved by Ireland joint Brexit Island in leaving the EU, all the more ludicrous. Like the wife beater wanting the ex-wife to move back in.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.


advertisement


Back
Top