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Oh Britain, what have you done (part ∞+16)?

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HairyHaggis said:
i'm suprised that this is not already underway. it has been part of our problem that, lacking the vitriol, purple-face and string-vest of the typical leaver, remainers are far too polite, educated and restrained for their own good. we need to bring about our own gilets jaunes
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Well let's take an example of differing approaches with the example of a bank that pi55ed of one of their customers, now the gammon way would be to lob a brick through the banks window, achieve nothing and get themselves arrested. Another way is to go through a complaint through the financial ombudsman, this is admin intensive costing the bank approx 500UKP, totally legit, no comeback, then we come to ads on Google, click on a typical ad and it costs the company cents, if you click on an as for an account for high net worth individual it costs tens of dollars, so to defeat the detection algorithm make sure you use a computer with a different IP address when you have the opportunity, anyway it's more damaging than a brick and they can't touch you for it. So think smart.
 
sean99 said:
I am increasingly of this opinion. She was a remainer only because she expected remain to win, but really her first priority was to become PM, and her second priority is to keep foreigners out of the UK. I hope she chokes on the poisoned chalice she has won.
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Oddly enough I think Corbyn was pretty much the same.

Jack
 
gavreid said:
You're choosing to believe what you want to believe. One swallow doesn't make a summer...
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Fair enough. Can you show me polls that say the opposite? ie that in a leave/remain vote leave has consistently been in a majority for the last 12 months?
 
Marchbanks said:
This one?

That seems to be about a GE rather than leave/remain intentions over the last twelve months.
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Sure - it depends how you ask the question, that's the issue. People have argued here that Brexit trancends all else, but when you ask about brexit in the context of how people vote in a GE you get a different outcome than a clear remain lead might suggest. When you average a bunch of polls you need to know a lot of information about who paid for the poll, was there any bias, what has the sample size and real error, what has been the historic reliability of that company's polls, how then has an average been computed, etc etc. Anyway I'm on my fatigue limit now but I am very, very sceptical about agreeing to your statement that we can be 'reasonably confident' remain is the majority view at this point in time.
 
In case anyone was wondering, she's lying about the negotiations. Again.

"Guy Verhofstadt‏Verified account @guyverhofstadt
Despite meetings w/ UK reps, incl PM May, Liddington & Barclay I’m yet to hear of a proposal to break Brexit deadlock. I ask myself what are these negotiations at a "crucial state" raised in the HoC? The way forward is cross-party, not kicking the can towards a disastrous no deal
4:26 PM - 12 Feb 2019"
 
gavreid said:
Sure - it depends how you ask the question, that's the issue. People have argued here that Brexit trancends all else, but when you ask about brexit in the context of how people vote in a GE you get a different outcome than a clear remain lead might suggest. When you average a bunch of polls you need to know a lot of information about who paid for the poll, was there any bias, what has the sample size and real error, what has been the historic reliability of that company's polls, how then has an average been computed, etc etc. Anyway I'm on my fatigue limit now but I am very, very sceptical about agreeing to your statement that we can be 'reasonably confident' remain is the majority view at this point in time.
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How could a GE where both major parties - the alternatives for most - both support leave be construed as a barometer for a leave remain ref?
 
gavreid said:
Sure - it depends how you ask the question, that's the issue. People have argued here that Brexit trancends all else, but when you ask about brexit in the context of how people vote in a GE you get a different outcome than a clear remain lead might suggest. When you average a bunch of polls you need to know a lot of information about who paid for the poll, was there any bias, what has the sample size and real error, what has been the historic reliability of that company's polls, how then has an average been computed, etc etc. Anyway I'm on my fatigue limit now but I am very, very sceptical about agreeing to your statement that we can be 'reasonably confident' remain is the majority view at this point in time.
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Really? Has been for months now as far as I'm aware. Can you post something solid to support your assertion that this is not the case?
 
gavreid said:
Sure - it depends how you ask the question, that's the issue. People have argued here that Brexit trancends all else, but when you ask about brexit in the context of how people vote in a GE you get a different outcome than a clear remain lead might suggest. When you average a bunch of polls you need to know a lot of information about who paid for the poll, was there any bias, what has the sample size and real error, what has been the historic reliability of that company's polls, how then has an average been computed, etc etc. Anyway I'm on my fatigue limit now but I am very, very sceptical about agreeing to your statement that we can be 'reasonably confident' remain is the mojority view at this point in time.
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I see enough of a trend in the polling to suggest a small Remain lead on a straight Remain-Leave question. But the political situation is extremely volatile now and I certainly wouldn't bet my house on a Remain victory in a second referendum. It's sobering to recall the final polls before the original referendum showed a Remain lead of anything from 1% to 10%. And yet...

This isn't a reason not to try a second referendum, of course. But it does suggest that people expecting an easy Remain win might be excessively optimistic.
 
ff1d1l said:
How could a GE where both major parties - the alternatives for most - both support leave be construed as a barometer for a leave remain ref?
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You tell me it was commissioned by Gina Miller's Best For Britain campaign group. I said I'm at my limit - I'm not well folks, we is why I'm here and not at work!
 
Interesting article in The Guardian about the border issue in Ireland. The Irish know their history and are worried Brexit could lead to conflict again. https://www.theguardian.com/comment...cS9S9EWvHUUzXaHQrqHJYrcu98SBx6BWebj8R8VC6unE8

In Northern Ireland each household has a copy of the Good Friday Agreement and many have read it. Some of those in charge of Brexit haven't though. For example Dominic Raab, the former Secretary of State for Exiting the European Union.

"What lots of people understood as a matter of instinct was obvious: that in the context of the peace process, the UK’s exit from the EU is a colossal breach of trust, made infinitely worse by the fact that it has been perpetrated so casually. The guilty parties stretch from mindless Tory Brexiteers, through the Labour politicians who have accepted our exit as a given."

The Guardian journalist goes along the border and talks to people about the GFA, Brexit. what should happen and what they fear. The Derry band Touts are interviewed. Touts is a Northern Irish colloquialism for police informers.

All three of Touts were too young to vote in the 2016 EU Referendum. Their music is punkish and very good.

"Touts have a song titled Bomb Scare, which, they say, juxtaposes observations of racism in the US and the European refugee crisis with the insecurities of their home turf. Its chorus sounds like a glimpse of very real fears: “Checkpoint Charlie / It’s not my heaven / It’s where we’re headed / It’s really not that far away.” To my English ears, it also suggests a finger angrily pointed at people who averted their eyes from Northern Ireland, and thereby committed the gravest Brexit folly of all."

This includes too many in the Labour Party.

Jack
 
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Brexit: Corbyn accuses May of running down clock to 'blackmail' MPs - Politics live

....but can Jeremy control his own MPs?
 
jackbarron said:
Interesting article in The Guardian about the border issue in Ireland. The Irish know their history and are worried Brexit could lead to conflict again. https://www.theguardian.com/comment...cS9S9EWvHUUzXaHQrqHJYrcu98SBx6BWebj8R8VC6unE8
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This is also my worry. As a Northern Prod, I wish so many of my country(wo)men were not so extreme, as I really think we'd be better off as Irish(wo)men, because Westminster really doesn't care about us. The DUP are a bunch of troglodytes, stuck in their strange tribal loyalties and determined to resume life in The Dark Ages (this, I realise, might be grossly insulting to any troglodytes out there, and I apologise). Of course, the North floats on a sea of UK taxpayers' money, well beyond the means of Ireland, but now, if the EU came to the party, it might be possible. In time for the centenary of Partition? Probably not, it'll take a while longer.
 
droodzilla said:
I see enough of a trend in the polling to suggest a small Remain lead on a straight Remain-Leave question. But the political situation is extremely volatile now and I certainly wouldn't bet my house on a Remain victory in a second referendum. It's sobering to recall the final polls before the original referendum showed a Remain lead of anything from 1% to 10%. And yet...

This isn't a reason not to try a second referendum, of course. But it does suggest that people expecting an easy Remain win might be excessively optimistic.
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Agreed but the worst possible scenario is not to know if the British (those allowed to vote anyway) really want this real version of Brexit or not. This is a huge decision for the country and it is important to be clear that people knowingly vote for what they are about to receive. No excuses later. We all then make our own decisions about we think of it.
 
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