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Oh Britain, what have you done (part ∞+14)?

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Stunsworth said:
Shadow cabinet members set to resign if Labour backs second referendum...

https://www.theguardian.com/politic...ring-of-resignations-if-he-backs-peoples-vote
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A large chunk of Leave voters were racists and xenophobes. They are interviewed every day on television. When Labour backed Brexit it was the biggest mistake they have made in my lifetime, next to the Iraq War. I refuse to vote for a Party which bows down to xenophobes and racists. So what if some MPs might lose their seats? They should stick to principles and show some moral courage. This lot are as bad May.

Jack
 
jackbarron said:
A large chunk of Leave voters were racists and xenophobes. They are interviewed every day on television. When Labour backed Brexit it was the biggest mistake they have made in my lifetime, next to the Iraq War. I refuse to vote for a Party which bows down to xenophobes and racists. So what if some MPs might lose their seats? They should stick to principles and show some moral courage. This lot are as bad May.

Jack
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True, funny that these types wanted out when the EU is exactly the same. You'd have thought birds of a feather etc...
 
jackbarron said:
Blair is the main person responsible for the big rise in immigration from the EU. When Poland joined the EU, he didn't impose a moratorium on Poles coming into the UK for a few years, unlike other countries. Blair's completely untrustworthy. He might make some sense now, but its far too late.

Jack
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I don't disagree
 
Seanm said:
For one quite large group known as the Conservative Party those values and interests run the gamut from sadism to carpetbagging and the only way to deal with them is to get rid.
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Fantastic idea. Any concrete suggestions of how to achieve that? The GE gambit didn't work too well.
 
jackbarron said:
Blair is the main person responsible for the big rise in immigration from the EU. When Poland joined the EU, he didn't impose a moratorium on Poles coming into the UK for a few years, unlike other countries.
Jack
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No, because we needed them and still do. Ireland's food factories have just as many poles in as British ones and a few more Lithuanian s for good measure.
 
Seanm said:
There really is no point playing to that crowd, and no point pretending any longer that there's room for any kind of consensus here. The Tories have spent the last two and a half years spelling it out for us: the only way through this is through their charred remains.
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More fighting talk. Burn the Tories! Torch the centrists! Now if only Jeremy could remember where he left his matches.
 
Corbyn mentioned the possibility of a People's Vote during a Labour meeting in Hastings today. I'll be very surprised if he proposes or supports one in the next few months.

My guess is both the Labour and Tory Parties will split if there is a second referendum. This Might be the best thing, given the massive cock up they have made of the EU Referendum and Brexit process and how untrustworthy they are.

Jack
 
gavreid said:
True but not so fundamentally. Once May is forced to concede her red lines the Tories will fracture - Corbyn's problem is the on-going threat of a LibDem mark2 / Blair Lite / pro business-anti union, Macron style party. If he get's it wrong he could lose a number of MPs to such an opportunist venture.
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Yes, this is a much, much more serious threat than no-deal Brexit. Evil centrists lurk everywhere.
 
jackbarron said:
Corbyn mentioned the possibility of a People's Vote during a Labour meeting in Hastings today. I'll be very surprised if he proposes or supports one in the next few months.

My guess is both the Labour and Tory Parties will split if there is a second referendum. This Might be the best thing, given the massive cock up they have made of the EU Referendum and Brexit process and how untrustworthy they are.

Jack
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May's deal vs no deal, May's deal vs leave, no deal vs leave, which is it?
We had a ref for leave or remain, the majority voted leave so it should be May's deal vs no deal to decide how we leave, remain should not be on the table. This is precisely why there will be no second ref, too many offering up what it should be, another holy war of words would begin.
 
eternumviti said:
A tired old trope, oft repeated and conveniently ignoring the much greater truth. But keep repeating it. The echo is undoubtedly comforting.
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It might be tired, but the Brexit gang (starting with the Chief Brexiter and former Home Sec, Mrs May) have never explained why non-EU immigration, consistently running in the 200-300 K region, was not brought "under control" by a government whose stated objective was to bring it down to tens of thousands, despite no limitation of any sort from the EU. Very strange.
 
eternumviti said:
I'm afraid that there is a consensus in certain circles that being in the EU - with its restrictive and inflexible labour, social and legislative rules, the lobbying power of big corporations keen to preserve their monopolies, and the innovation-squashing precautionary principle - is possibly the worst place to be if the country is to compete with the far east. This consensus may or may not be wrong, but it exists.
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I wonder which circles these are. Their consensus is clearly daft, as can be seen by the balance of trade of the EU in general, and the eurozone in particular.
 
PsB said:
Fantastic idea. Any concrete suggestions of how to achieve that? The GE gambit didn't work too well.
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Yes, keep the pressure on. If May does anything reasonable the party will split. Drop a red line? Split. Take no deal off the table? Split. All she can do is keep on running the clock down, to sell her deal to the rebels. But if this looks like being successful the DUP will split off and support a vote of no confidence. Self-immolation is a very real prospect if Labour keep making the right moves.

It's a shame about Vince Cable, who seems bent on relieving the pressure. I wonder what it cost May to get him to swear allegiance in another VoNC? The Libs are notoriously tough negotiators. Maybe...a 10p plastic bag tax?

Labour really not getting much help here.
 
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