Nytech Audio / Ion Systems Appreciation Thread

[Nytecholdie]

I agree with Mudlark, the casework did let the amps down. From an electronic design point of view they were good though. They chose to use their own transistor regulators and capacitor multipliers rather than go down the Naim road of using IC regulators. This decision gave them the edge in terms of sound quality and improvement potential IMHO but at the expense of a more complex circuit and build. The wiring inside the cases to the multiple boards in a tight space was a tricky job in the factory. The build costs must have been higher as a result and dug into their margins. Check out this picture of the CP112:

There were a multitude of other clever design tricks in the Nytechs and Ions. On some of the power amps they had two feedback networks, one either side of the output capacitor. That made the output cap more linear in the circuit and is arguably a better design choice than having a direct coupled split rail amp circuit like the Naim one. I have modified some Ion Obelisks by adding this second feedback loop around the output cap to good effect. The evidence is here:

There are other real improvements that can be made to the already well designed Nytech/Ion power/pre amp circuits that do nothing but develop its qualities further. That's why I like these amps so much. The only problem is fittting the improvements into the case - which is why Ion themselves came up with the piggybacked power supply option. Some guys have admired the design so much they have done a total rebuild:

I do have some gripes from a circuit design point of view though. The early Nytech/Ion Obelisks had poor thermal management in their power amp. This was sorted in later versions but I have mended three that had gone into thermal runaway and blown fuses and output trannies. They were skimping on heatsinks and it caught them out a bit. I've got the picies to prove it. I get the feeling that they briefly lost the understanding of their own design, possibly when some key individual left. There is evidence that they tried to copy and scale down earlier circuits and misunderstood how they worked for a while when the Obeisk came out. They sorted the glaring errors but never fully replicated all the clever bits from the Nytech era.

What I hope to do one day is design an amp that incorporates all the best bits of the Nytech and Ion amps, and have it all on a single circuit board in a decent case. That would be a winner.

John

I agree with Mudlark, the casework did let the amps down. From an electronic design point of view they were good though. They chose to use their own transistor regulators and capacitor multipliers rather than go down the Naim road of using IC regulators. This decision gave them the edge in terms of sound quality and improvement potential IMHO but at the expense of a more complex circuit and build. The wiring inside the cases to the multiple boards in a tight space was a tricky job in the factory. The build costs must have been higher as a result and dug into their margins. Check out this picture of the CP112:

There were a multitude of other clever design tricks in the Nytechs and Ions. On some of the power amps they had two feedback networks, one either side of the output capacitor. That made the output cap more linear in the circuit and is arguably a better design choice than having a direct coupled split rail amp circuit like the Naim one. I have modified some Ion Obelisks by adding this second feedback loop around the output cap to good effect. The evidence is here:

There are other real improvements that can be made to the already well designed Nytech/Ion power/pre amp circuits that do nothing but develop its qualities further. That's why I like these amps so much. The only problem is fittting the improvements into the case - which is why Ion themselves came up with the piggybacked power supply option. Some guys have admired the design so much they have done a total rebuild:

I do have some gripes from a circuit design point of view though. The early Nytech/Ion Obelisks had poor thermal management in their power amp. This was sorted in later versions but I have mended three that had gone into thermal runaway and blown fuses and output trannies. They were skimping on heatsinks and it caught them out a bit. I've got the picies to prove it. I get the feeling that they briefly lost the understanding of their own design, possibly when some key individual left. There is evidence that they tried to copy and scale down earlier circuits and misunderstood how they worked for a while when the Obeisk came out. They sorted the glaring errors but never fully replicated all the clever bits from the Nytech era.

What I hope to do one day is design an amp that incorporates all the best bits of the Nytech and Ion amps, and have it all on a single circuit board in a decent case. That would be a winner.

John

 

[Nytecholdie]

Someones made a nice neat job of the simple re-boxing of the Nytech pa modules and power supply above - Slightly worried however as the replacement output caps mounted on the back of the board appear to be the wrong way round as the -ve is usually the can on an electrolytic capacitor and it looks like the can has been connected to the PCB pad where the +ve should go.
Either that or its two electrolytics "back to back" which is a horrible idea at the best of times and the amp was designed for the capacitor to be polarised properly as its a "single supply" design with AC coupling to the loudspeaker (via the offending capacitor). (as in the circuit diagram above)

 

[Nytecholdie]

Just an observation - The speaker coupling caps in the above picture (the big purple ones) look like they are the wrong way round! The metal can of an electrolytic capacitor is usually the -ve and it should be going to the speaker end, not the point on the PCB where it seems to be connected! If thats the case somethings going to go bang!

 

[Nytecholdie]

Apologies for the duplicated post - I thought the first one hadn't worked :-(

 

[Ugly Tuco]

I`ve just return from the long holidays without msic and now I`m listening to my Nytech CA 202 and I can say only it`s really great amp.

 

[wadiman]

Hi all - just came across this thread - wonderful to hear that Nytech is back with us.

I have a CA252 that i purchased new around 82 i think. It did solid service for 30-odd years with no issues whatsoever except....the slider controls for volume and balance. The unit is in storage but I will get it recapped and want to replace the slider - the pins that hold the buttons on the slider unit have broken. Any ideas as to whether (or where) a replacement may be available? Thanks from Australia.

 

[Nytecholdie]

The sliders that fit the original PCB layout or mounting plate are no longer available but I'm actually in the process of trying out some alternative pots with the possibility of a complete replacement board - watch this space!

 

[wadiman]

Great to hear! Will stay tuned.

 

[Ugly Tuco]

Got the scan copy of the article about Ion Systems in PDF format and need a help to download it to the thread.

 

[Ugly Tuco]

Finally I download the article so please use the link to download the PDF scan copy below:

https://yadi.sk/i/0UbxVBg2NwEZXg

 

[cpg]

I enjoyed reading the article, thanks for taking the trouble to upload it.
It would be interesting to read the "next installment", how ion systems were later taken over and changed their range and finally how Richard Hay started working with Heed in Hungary and designed amplifiers with and without capacitor coupling for them

 

[Ugly Tuco]

I enjoyed reading the article, thanks for taking the trouble to upload it.
It would be interesting to read the "next installment", how ion systems were later taken over and changed their range and finally how Richard Hay started working with Heed in Hungary and designed amplifiers with and without capacitor coupling for them

You are welcome.

 

[pocketkitchen]

I enjoyed reading the article, thanks for taking the trouble to upload it.
It would be interesting to read the "next installment", how ion systems were later taken over and changed their range and finally how Richard Hay started working with Heed in Hungary and designed amplifiers with and without capacitor coupling for them

The answer to the latter part is that Alpar from Heed was a big fan of the Ion amps and asked if he could make them. Richard was happy with that and so they did. Via the then Multiroom Company (of which Richard was a director) they were then imported back into the UK. Richard maintained some input into the amps until his passing.

 

[Ugly Tuco]

I need to open my CA202 but I have no idea how to do it.

 

[snowman_al]

Easy,
Remove the 3 screws from the rear top cover, loosen the bottom two a bit. then at the front bottom cover, not quite in the centre is a black screw head. Remove it completely. It should be rather long. Then carefully 'split the two halves from the back. The front is where it sort of hinges and you can lay it flat.

You can see the way it fits together from these pictures.The long screw fits in the bracket on the right.

And in the bottom cover on the left.

That's it, but putting it back together... is another story!

 

[Ugly Tuco]

That's it, but putting it back together... is another story!

Thank you very much but I feel a bit frightened and want to know the story before I`ll split the covers.

 

[snowman_al]

No story and no need to be frightened.
Just that the harnesses have a mind of their own once released depending on how they were dressed originally. Take note as you lift the top the first time. Then take care not to trap a wire when tucking them back in. Just take your time.

Why are you splitting it any way?

 

[Ugly Tuco]

No story and no need to be frightened.
Just that the harnesses have a mind of their own once released depending on how they were dressed originally. Take note as you lift the top the first time. Then take care not to trap a wire when tucking them back in. Just take your time.

Why are you splitting it any way?

Thank you very much.
I have a felling that something loose inside and I want to check how much it is pristine inside.

 

[hansievanstaak]

I enjoyed reading the article, thanks for taking the trouble to upload it.
It would be interesting to read the "next installment", how ion systems were later taken over and changed their range and finally how Richard Hay started working with Heed in Hungary and designed amplifiers with and without capacitor coupling for them

Hi

Just stumbled back upon this thread...and I thought I might, as Richards son, be able to add a little insight...admittedly whilst most of the Nytech stuff happened when I was quite young and there are others who worked for Dad during the Nytech years who are far more qualified, I've more of a connection with the Ion years and Heed.

The whole Nytech to Ion thing and the move to Mid-Wales is quite a protracted story so not for here...but it was not long after the move to Wales that we met the Huszti family (Heed). Alpar and younger brother Zsolt were fans of the Obelisk (originally the CA102 if I remember correctly) and they had managed to figure out a clever way of being able to import product into the then communist Hungary. Alpar was based in Frankfurt, his wife is German, and their company, East End Audio Import, again if I recall correctly, had managed to get import licenses for Hungary. They'd organised to import a kit of parts, which they'd assemble in Budapest, so, as they were employing staff it made importation less of a problem...the Obelisks started to get built in Budapest, I believe some other manufacturers did the same with East End Audio too...probably Rega and Royd.

Zsolt, who is the technical brains of the family (sorry Alpar), had graduated from University in Budapest with a degree in electronics and acoustics (I think) and he spent quite some time over with us, learning the ropes and ideas from Dad, and so became an advocate of the AC coupled (cap coupled) amp design idea, which I guess dates back to Dads formative days working for Radfords alongside Messers Alner, Hamblin, Widgery...as well as Arthur Radford and Arthur Bailey, who were huge influences.

When Dad and Ron Walker (co-director of Ion) had increasing numbers of clashes, Dad called it a day, and left to pursue other business interests. That would have been in about 91/92...I think...Ion quite quickly fell apart and were no more.

In the interim period Heed as a brand started domestically in Hungary, designing a few small products, Zsolt was editing a Hi Fi Magazine, and also they published a few kit or "hobby" designs in the magazine, one being their Rega/Linn turntable power supply the Orbit. They then re-cycled and updated the Ion Phono Stages - into the Questar and Quasar...and designed their own and utterly brilliant little headphone amp the CanAmp...they then also had a small pre-amp called the Luna and a "regular" DC coupled amp called the CanOpus, which were their own designs.

In about 1999 I got in contact with Alpar & Zsolt to see if I could import these little devices back into the UK, I suppose going full circle! So I began importing the little Heed bits into the UK, and also joined my Dad in a joint venture, together with a couple of other mates, one who was a builder/developer we started the Multi-Room Company, importing multi-room audio/video gear, lighting control etc. So I managed to get Dad back into electronics, and of course he took immediate interest in what was going on back in Hungary...he was then able to be something of a sounding board for the guys at Heed. Zsolt and especially their main electronics designer Atilla are the guys behind the Heed designs, Dad, whilst he was alive was always on hand for them for advice and help when they needed it. He did make a few trips over but wasn't designing anything for them 24/7 etc. I know Dad was really pleased when Atilla joined the team, he rated him very highly, and he's got a complimentary skill set to Zsolt.

The re-juvenation of Nytech with Phil Balaam is another story, and one that delights me...as Phil used to be baby sitter as well as one of Dad's right hand men back in the 70's so probably had more time playing with my train set than I did...I must dig it out of the garage at some point. He's about as well placed as any to carry on the Nytech legacy pretty much over anyone else...

Myself and my brothers sadly have no aptitude for electronic design...so it's wonderful to see the Radfords/Nytech/Ion braintrust continue in Heed and new Nytech.

Blimey I've gone a bit...sorry!

 

[NRWler04]

Hi

Just stumbled back upon this thread...and I thought I might, as Richards son, be able to add a little insight...admittedly whilst most of the Nytech stuff happened when I was quite young and there are others who worked for Dad during the Nytech years who are far more qualified, I've more of a connection with the Ion years and Heed.

...

The re-juvenation of Nytech with Phil Balaam is another story, and one that delights me...as Phil used to be baby sitter as well as one of Dad's right hand men back in the 70's so probably had more time playing with my train set than I did...I must dig it out of the garage at some point. He's about as well placed as any to carry on the Nytech legacy pretty much over anyone else...

Myself and my brothers sadly have no aptitude for electronic design...so it's wonderful to see the Radfords/Nytech/Ion braintrust continue in Heed and new Nytech.

Blimey I've gone a bit...sorry!

And with the revived 602 we also continued the good old ideas .... and the sound is wonderfull