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Nostalgia vs R&D

Conan

Conan

Loop digger
Interesting dilemma this one.
Many here (including myself) are happier with older equipment than newer equipment.
The likes of Naim, Quad, Sudgen amps, or Epos, Linn or Royd speakers are the usual culprits.
I too have fallen in love with the Nait 2 and Royd Merlin, a perfect match.
Is this pure nostalgia or is there any rational reason?
 
The 80’s was the golden era of hi-fi and many hi-fi gears were designed by trials and errors and the designers were relying on their ears more than their measurements.
I’m not saying today’s stuff isn’t good but many vintage equipment are more musical than what we are offered nowadays.
Spendor BC1 is one of these.
 
Gervais Cote said:
The 80’s was the golden era of hi-fi
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In hindsight the ‘80s was when it started smelling funny IMHO. I’d take the best of the ‘50s, 60s and 70s myself. Digital source material excepted of course, but that slots perfectly into any classic system. I’d happily listen to the very best modern DAC via a Quad II/ESL, Leak/Tannoy, McIntosh/Altec or whatever system.
 
Mr Pig said:
Man's right. Hi-Fi hasn't gotten significantly better in decades and a lot of modern stuff is technically better but soulless. In my never less than very humble opinion ;0)
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I'd tend to agree. On a couple of occasions I've auditioned some kit from respected Manufacturers- thanks to some very helpful dealers- and walked away feeling rather cold.

Difficult to put my finger on exactly why. That's subjectivity for you!

I'm in my happy place right now listening to Wes Montgomery through Tannoys and my first Valve Amplifier.

Incidentally, the first time I heard music reproduced through a Valve Amplifier- and Modified- Granite Framed- Quad ESL 'Speakers, I was convinced there was a Pianist at the nearby Grand Piano.

There wasn't anybody playing the piano.

I'm sorry I can't remember that system. It was an excellent and very clever demonstration!
 
Monitor Gold 10 said:
I'd tend to agree. On a couple of occasions I've auditioned some kit from respected Manufacturers- thanks to some very helpful dealers- and walked away feeling rather cold.

Difficult to put my finger on exactly why. That's subjectivity for you!

I'm in my happy place right now listening to Wes Montgomery through Tannoys and my first Valve Amplifier.

Incidentally, the first time I heard music reproduced through a Valve Amplifier- and Modified- Granite Framed- Quad ESL 'Speakers, I was convinced there was a Pianist at the nearby Grand Piano.

There wasn't anybody playing the piano.

I'm sorry I can't remember that system. It was an excellent and very clever demonstration!
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That’s funny you mention this, I had a very similar experience back in the late Seventies in Chicago. I entered a fancy audio salon and heard someone noodling on a piano in the main listening room. I thought that was pretty bold, they had an actual piano in there to A/B against their stereo setups. I got into the room and of course, no piano. Just a full Mark Levinson HQD system with stacked Quad ESL speakers. I’m still stunned that it sounded so realistic that my brain immediately assumed there was a real piano in there, even though I was standing in an audio shop.
 
I love the nostalgia and ritual of traditional Hi Fi kit, but the more I dip into it I can't help feeling that science, research and development are taking us into a new golden era of sound reproduction and music accessibility.
 
BertieWorcester said:
I love the nostalgia and ritual of traditional Hi Fi kit, but the more I dip into it I can't help feeling that science, research and development are taking us into a new golden era of sound reproduction and music accessibility.
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Good one, that made me laugh! :0)
 
Very interesting question. I also go for older kit, especially speakers, but amps too - and some of that is just because I think they look cool!

My own personal belief is that technology in the middle of the sound reproduction chain has developed almost beyond recognition (sources, transports, amps with class d, etc), whilst at each end (by which I mean recording and speakers) it either hasn’t moved that much or indeed gone backwards.

Examples of this would be that Kind of Blue is still one of my reference points for exemplary recording and production, it just sounds fantastic and I can’t imagine how it could sound much better! Whereas modern digital recording technology, tastes and techniques often just sound horrible to me - even if it is ‘technically’ amazing.

And with speakers, OK so manufacturing processes, materials and tolerances etc have all improved a lot and we now have computer modelling and tuning. But the basic physics and technology is still the same - so I’ve no doubt that there are some amazing modern speakers out there - but a good pair of older speakers will me most of the way there - and get me that nostalgic fix to boot!

So for me - I use the latest tech with regard to source (always messing around with Pi boxes and dacs - and always hidden out of sight as it looks horrible), amplification is either vintage or modern but basically ‘old-school’ tech (preference for class a/b) and my ‘newest’ speakers are early ‘90’s, IMO sound pretty good and look great!
 
BertieWorcester said:
I love the nostalgia and ritual of traditional Hi Fi kit, but the more I dip into it I can't help feeling that science, research and development are taking us into a new golden era of sound reproduction and music accessibility.
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I agree. Nostalgia is perfectly fair enough as a valid reason to enjoy the hobby and it would be intolerant to dismiss it. However I have come to understand that nostalgic looking back largely doesn't work for me.

Recorded source material is of greater technical quality today. Unbeatable when combined with the best of today's musicianship. I do still like and listen to 1950s recordings of opera when the performers are just so good that the technical limitations fade. There are limits - one 1960s opera set I have reveals tape recorder issues too much to listen to these days on modern more revealing kit.

Loudspeakers have come on significantly through designers more widely using CAD and having much better testing facilities. Some older designs achieved just as much and may not be bettered by much (or at all). My initiation into hifi was via a university friend's ESL-57s. They still stack up superbly (my last listen to these was in early 2019). Ditto I am sure for the those makes which survive in today's vintage market. But remember it's only the good vintage ones that do survive.

This is not to say that everything is always better. For sure not. But I suspect really good quality is more widely available today even if top quality isn't very significantly better. However the declining size of the hifi market may bode ill for the future.
 
In general: old kit for old people :)

However, the R&D which resulted in the huge improvement in bass accuracy was the pivotal moment for my system.
 
Conan said:
Interesting dilemma this one.
Many here (including myself) are happier with older equipment than newer equipment.
The likes of Naim, Quad, Sudgen amps, or Epos, Linn or Royd speakers are the usual culprits.
I too have fallen in love with the Nait 2 and Royd Merlin, a perfect match.
Is this pure nostalgia or is there any rational reason?
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It follows from what provides enjoyment for you from your interest in home audio equipment. There is nothing irrational in having a low interest in what used to be called high fidelity sound (i.e. high technical performance) and instead deriving most of your pleasure from other factors. The mainstream of the home audio industry shifted pretty much wholesale in this direction after the stereo boom in the late 70s. I don't think the UK currently has a single home audio manufacturer that one could safely describe as engineering lead with a strong emphasis on high technical performance. KEF isn't too far off although a fair amount of their activity is now in Asia and they do indulge in marketing exercises like the recent metamaterial business, ATC are drifting away into expensive retroland, B&W seem to shift away from engineering towards marketing in the 90s with most of the rest always being marketing lead rather than engineering lead. Rega is perhaps another that is not too far off being engineering lead. Others?

The reason for the change is simply that engineering became much less important when it became straightforward to manufacture audibly neutral hardware. After a period of R&D the shift from valves to semi-conductors achieved this for most audio circuits, the shift to digital recordings from analogue did the same for recording media, leaving stereo recordings, microphones and speakers in rooms as the main factors limiting high fidelity sound. These are not subjects that stimulate many audiophiles despite being the only ones that matter significantly when it comes to high fidelity. So why not take pleasure in other factors related to luxury goods?
 
Conan said:
Is this pure nostalgia or is there any rational reason?
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All things being equal I see no reason why a piece of equipment designed and produced today would not be technically superior to one designed and produced in the '70s or the '80s.

It's probably down to personal preference, habit and nostalgia.
Build quality and aestethics may play an important role as well...
 
tuga said:
All things being equal I see no reason why a piece of equipment designed and produced today would not be technically superior to one designed and produced in the '70s or the '80s.
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Because materials and technology have moved on for a start. Simple example, the cast Rega armtube could not have been manufactured in the seventies, the technology didn't exist, and the one they make today is better than the original because both the casting ability and structural understanding of the arm have moved on.
 
My fondest hi-fi memories are from the 70s and 80s simply because I was of an age that I could devote endless hours to listening and fiddling with this and that. Hours and hours comparing this Naim pre-amp with that, or fettling the Linn.

But did any of those systems sound better than what I have now (lossless files streamed to active/cardiod speakers)?

No, not in a million years; I remember those days fondly but I don't look at them through rose-tinted spectacles. What I have in my lounge now is far, far more capable at reproducing music.
 
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