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Nicola Sturgeon

Discussion in 'off topic' started by Woodface, Feb 15, 2023.

  1. Ponty

    Ponty pfm Member

    Maybe Rishi should call a ref now to close off once and for all. Or is that only allowed if the SNP think they will win?
  2. twotone

    twotone pfm Member

    Great idea:rolleyes:
    Ponty likes this.
  3. Brian

    Brian Eating fat, staying slim

    @Somafunk Who do you hope takes over the SNP leadership?

    No sneering indifference from me. Never is, I want Scotland to thrive just the same as all of the UK. Which candidate is best placed to deliver?
  4. kensalriser

    kensalriser pfm Member

    Well, I didn't state how much I expect support for the SNP to drop so that's a difficult call!

    In fact, in terms of Westminster MPs the SNP peaked in 2015 and even the improvement in 2019 didn't equal that high water mark. And that improvement was largely driven by a nationwide decline in the Labour vote, the opposite of what happened in 2017. Against the headwinds of a significantly improved Labour vote at the next GE and the loss of an electoral asset in Sturgeon, it's hard to see a path to any improvement in the SNP's vote. In just the last few weeks they've lost a council seat in Edinburgh to the Lib Dems, one in Stirling to the Tories and failed to win one in Aberdeen which went to Labour on second preference votes. Now I will give my expectation - they will lose 6-10 seats, with perhaps some compensation if they win back a few of the Tory marginals.

    By the way, this is non-partisan analysis. I'd like to see as few Tory seats as possible at the next election and it doesn't much matter to me which party in Scotland benefits (this would change if Forbes wins the leadership).
  5. Seanm

    Seanm pfm Member

    Gives me no pleasure to remark on how little there seems to be to them absent Sturgeon.
  6. ciderglider

    ciderglider pfm Member

    Well you're a better man than me then.
  7. Finnegan

    Finnegan pfm Member

  8. MikeMA

    MikeMA pfm Member

    Just heard this on BBC Radio 4 News.

    Like @kensalriser I can't help feeling that we may have seen peak SNP.

    While they will likely remain the strongest party in Scotland for the foreseeable future, I think the departure of Sturgeon, the calibre of her likely replacement, their performance in government, and declining party membership, will take the wind out of the sails for full independence.

    I should make it clear that I have nothing against Scotland and, being an effete Southerner living on the South Coast of England, I have no direct skin in this game, though I'm a great fan of Scotland and the Scottish people and wish them well whatever they ultimately decide. If I lived in Scotland I think I'd be pushing for a Quebec option.
    Colin L and ff1d1l like this.
  9. twotone

    twotone pfm Member

    Looks to me that Labour will be the next government in Westminster and what will likely happen is that there will be a resurgence of labour in Scotland cause the SNP have, basically, pissed 15 years of government up the wall and have now run out of road.

    That was always going to happen cause the SNP leadership are not in the slightest bit interested in Independence they're all enjoying being in the pay of the UK government and who can blame them?

    They should really have done what Sinn Fein did and refused point blank to send MPs to Westminster because SF knew that their MPS would have been seduced and compromised by being in London/Westminster plus Sturgeon should really have been an MP not an MSP.
    Last edited: Mar 18, 2023 at 8:24 PM
  10. Finnegan

    Finnegan pfm Member

    My judgment would not be quite as harsh as yours. But I agree, the moment has passed, and it is entirely due to the direction the neoliberal cabal around Sturgeon have pursued since 2014.

    I’m not a SNP member, but if I was I would be voting on a ‘least worse option’ basis (and probably Reagan), as none of the three candidates really inspire the fight for independence. Their claims of independence in five years are as ludicrous as they are fantasist. It’s back to square one. It will be interesting to see the numbers All Under One Banner pull to the demo in Glasgow on 6th May. AUOB have invited all three leadership candidates to address the rally. Participation, abstention and absences will give us a useful idea of how serious an independence strategy they are likely to pursue.
    twotone likes this.
  11. Tony L

    Tony L Administrator

    It just highlights just how important a party leader is. Nicola Sturgeon along with Caroline Lucas are the only credible ones to have reached the top of any UK party in living memory IMHO. The only two with an acceptable combination of competence and decency. At best we get one, almost always neither. Our politics pretty much always preselects truly dreadful people. Those attracted to such a career are inevitably the least suited.
  12. Brian

    Brian Eating fat, staying slim

    What's been obvious for a long time is the incompetence of the SNP and division within the party, the party hasn't improved since Sturgeon became leader. This is now being highlighted by people within the party for all to see.

    The fawning over Sturgeon- hoodwinked. Massively. The party simply stirs up the nationalists, which history tells us is not difficult. It's very similar to people being played to vote for brexit. Millions are worse off but those insulated don't give a damn.

    There are some very serious questions about the SNP.
  13. richardg

    richardg Admonishtrator

  14. claire.foxx

    claire.foxx Trans lives matter more than your feelings - ΘΔ

    Maybe Government should dispense with this time-consuming election stuff and simply install a “government approved” 1st minister who is more in line with current Tory ideology?

    It’s clear Westminster regards itself as the true masters of Scotland. Empire’s current insular closing of the jaws means it has no countries left to subjugate so Scotland might as well be England’s next little white niggers.

    Durmbo likes this.
  15. richardg

    richardg Admonishtrator

    That should get you a ban!
  16. richardg

    richardg Admonishtrator

  17. Finnegan

    Finnegan pfm Member

    He loaned the SNP £107 grand, which was not reported to the relevant body for over a year, in contravention of laws governing loans to political parties. Sturgeon claims to have been unaware of it. My Mrs. doesn't always tell me everything, but I think I’d deserve to know if she’d spunked a hundred and seven K.
  18. Seanm

    Seanm pfm Member

    I’m not sure it does: I think it illustrates how easily a good leader, with a fair wind behind her, can draw a veil over structural and strategic weaknesses, and how dangerous it is to let that happen, because eventually those weaknesses will reassert themselves. Usually once the media decide the time is right and find the right buttons to press.
  19. claire.foxx

    claire.foxx Trans lives matter more than your feelings - ΘΔ

    Yeah right. You could do with working on your theatrical outrage a bit more.
    Durmbo, TheDecameron and droodzilla like this.
  20. Tony L

    Tony L Administrator

    The SNP under her leadership pretty much purged both the Tories and Labour from Scotland despite the core independence policy being a polarising 50/50-ish issue with the electorate. She did so without any cruelty or pandering to tabloids and remaining openly progressive, LGBTQ+ friendly and unambiguously pro-EU/anti-Brexit. A leader absolutely fearless in calling out right-wing gammons of every type. I’ve huge respect for her and strongly suspect the SNP will now implode into a cowardly fence-sitting irrelevance the way 21st century Labour have. A huge shame and UK politics as a whole is the worse for it.

    PS For clarity I didn’t remove the Oliver’s Army clip! I’d forgotten how dodgy that video was! Great song though, despite the word.

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