Haha. Your passive/aggressive condescending tone continues.
I've driven a GT3 and an M2 Competition. Have you ?
When you get past the poseur targa let me know.
New Porsche Cayman....6 pot and No Turbo!!!
- Thread starter andyoz
- Start date
Haha. Your passive/aggressive condescending tone continues.
I've driven a GT3 and an M2 Competition. Have you ?
When you get past the poseur targa let me know.
Tony Lockhart
Avoiding Stress, at Every Opportunity
C’mon ladies, handbags down, kiss n make up.
If 2.7/3.4 were 'enough' why have Porsche have just increased the Cayman to 4 litres ?
Porsche must have known those VW figures were a manipulated con so why did they go the same way ?
That's my experience of the current crop of petrol turbos. I've hired a few, they generate great headline economy figures and decent performance from a 1.0L triple. Claims are 50+mpg and 140 bhp. However in the real world this equates to a small car that performs like a 1.3 Fiesta, meaning adequate, even reasonably sprightly, performance but nothing spectacular, and fuel at ~38mpg when driven at normal speeds on normal A roads. Hardly great, I had high 30s from a Mondeo 1.8 for 60k miles. That's not good enough when a 1300 or 1400 fiesta from 30 years ago used to deliver 40 mpg, and that was via a carburettor and driven by a lead-footed man in his 20s.
6 cylinder engines are rather good, especially as diesels. I've recently bought my first, a Jaguar S type diesel. I didn't intend to but it was a distress sale to replace a dead one and so far it has been great. 40 real world mpg, >200bhp, waftomatic auto and about 1.6 tonnes, under £1k. So far it's needed a brake repair following a seized caliper, hardly a big deal. Come the summer I want something a bit more fun around corners, I think it's time for another 4 cyl NA petrol with a serpent on the bonnet. Or maybe even a scorpion.
Because there are no prizes for coming second. If you know your competitor is covering the first 20 miles of a marathon on the back of a motorbike, then you're going to go motorcycle shopping too.
I used to have a Cayman S which I enjoyed very much and so I occasionally day-dream about getting another one. However I expected the next key variant would be battery powered rather than a return to 6 cylinder.
Is this just a stop gap move?
Really like the (viper?) green of the Boxster in the trailer.
Is this just a stop gap move?
Really like the (viper?) green of the Boxster in the trailer.
blossomchris
I feel better than James Brown
I hope nobody on here reacts like this with a new jam jar.
Bloss
Bloss
4L and 400 bhp is a lot of poke and it won't be overstretched at "only" 100 bhp/L.
What are 911s up to now? I know that a few years ago when the Cayman was launched the basic premise was that a Boxster was about 200bhp, a Cayman 300, a NA 911 400, and this was intentional because for obvious reasons they didn't want the "cheaper" cars stealing sales from the flagship. It was a clear way of segmenting the market and having 3 very different cars at 3 different price points.
What are 911s up to now? I know that a few years ago when the Cayman was launched the basic premise was that a Boxster was about 200bhp, a Cayman 300, a NA 911 400, and this was intentional because for obvious reasons they didn't want the "cheaper" cars stealing sales from the flagship. It was a clear way of segmenting the market and having 3 very different cars at 3 different price points.
Ali T
pfm Member
What did you think of the M2 and how did it compare to the GT3?
Been eying up lease deals on the M2 Competition..
3
35451
Guest
I drive a 4 pot turbo. (remapped golf 7.5 r). Its more than fast enough. Can hold its head in lofty company. BUT, the 4 cylinder sounds anodyne, no matter what silly popping exhaust etc you add. Its never going to sound or feel like a straight 6 or flat 6. Until the ICE finally dies and we are all chasing Teslas, the engine is the heart of the motoring experience for me.
IMO Porsche done the right thing. They fill every sub niche with a derivative of their parts bins. I drove a 718 turbo last year. It was lovely - handling grunt, grip. But the (torquey btw) flat 4, is just not Porsche, and i was hankering after the flat 6 signature.
With the 992 range entirely turbo'd, and having made $$$$s on the GT4, its entirely logical for Porsche to add the 4L n/a flat 6 lump to enhance the boxster/718 - a 'new' flat 6 400hp boxster is going to be v popular with enthusiasts amongst the turbo 4-only current offering.
GTS is in effect a Gt4 lite. Manual only, but PDK will surely come. I want one. BUT, not as much as I would like a 992C2s - however that's still
nearly £30K more expensive than the 718 on list (£93k vs £65K), before you add extras.
This car will sell well - even with the 'poor man's 911' tag (wrongfully imo) often applied.
skillful marketing Porsche. Leave no gaps...
IMO Porsche done the right thing. They fill every sub niche with a derivative of their parts bins. I drove a 718 turbo last year. It was lovely - handling grunt, grip. But the (torquey btw) flat 4, is just not Porsche, and i was hankering after the flat 6 signature.
With the 992 range entirely turbo'd, and having made $$$$s on the GT4, its entirely logical for Porsche to add the 4L n/a flat 6 lump to enhance the boxster/718 - a 'new' flat 6 400hp boxster is going to be v popular with enthusiasts amongst the turbo 4-only current offering.
GTS is in effect a Gt4 lite. Manual only, but PDK will surely come. I want one. BUT, not as much as I would like a 992C2s - however that's still
nearly £30K more expensive than the 718 on list (£93k vs £65K), before you add extras.
This car will sell well - even with the 'poor man's 911' tag (wrongfully imo) often applied.
skillful marketing Porsche. Leave no gaps...
davidsrsb
pfm Member
The MK1 Fiesta was about half the weight and size of a new Honda City. Cars have grown much larger and bloated with crash protection.
Weight will always spoil fuel consumption in traffic unless you have a hybrid.
Basic Carrera S is up to 450 now, our old one is 350 so they keep edging up.
If you want a bit more the Speedster is just over 500 iirc but costs.
Carrera S prob about £100k OTR Cayman £80k ish.
List looks more attractive but you'll always want a few options and tax is high now.
Interesting to note the Speedster is quoted at 4.0 sec 0 to 62 and Macan managed 4.1 in an Autocar test!
If you want a bit more the Speedster is just over 500 iirc but costs.
Carrera S prob about £100k OTR Cayman £80k ish.
List looks more attractive but you'll always want a few options and tax is high now.
Interesting to note the Speedster is quoted at 4.0 sec 0 to 62 and Macan managed 4.1 in an Autocar test!
Tony Lockhart
Avoiding Stress, at Every Opportunity
Don’t go comparing Cayman with 911. Totally different cars with a different driving experience.
Fiesta 1.6 XR2 from 1986 - 865kg. 1.0 750 kg, both base kerb weights.
Modern Fiesta 1.0 Eco - 1026kg minimum. That's a 20% premium, hardly double, in a fundamentally bigger car. It doesn't compensate for the fact that 30 years on cars no longer have carbs, they have a computer far superior to anything available back then, they no longer have skinny 155r13 tyres, etc. Where's the progress?
Modern Fiesta 1.0 Eco - 1026kg minimum. That's a 20% premium, hardly double, in a fundamentally bigger car. It doesn't compensate for the fact that 30 years on cars no longer have carbs, they have a computer far superior to anything available back then, they no longer have skinny 155r13 tyres, etc. Where's the progress?
If you ask everyone on here in a Porsche to put their handbags down the effect would be felt in Vanuatu.
bor
queue jumper
This is out of the question, I'm sorry to say.
Manufacturers are fighting for any possible reduction in emissions /fuel consumed. Each gramme over the set limit will be penalised at something like 90€/gramme for each car.
A turbo four cylinder will, as a rule, use less fuel than a nat asp six cylinder, under test conditions or even in real life.
I think people exaggerate about turbo lag. It is really not so noticable these days.
I am surprised Porsche have reverted to a nat asp six, but maybe the commercial aspects mean it makes financial sense for them to swallow the fines for breaching the emission limits if they can sell more cars.
I drive a VX220 supercharged and having come from a 6.0 V8, and before that a 3.0 straight six I can say I'm not over-enamored by a four pot......however they have their uses (pace, reliability etc.), as described by guest above. I can only hear the 4 pot drone until the 'charger starts to whine in any case, by when the thing is really getting going.
I will always miss a characterful engine layout though.......
IMO IMO IMO
The GT3 is another level above 'normal' 911s but you only really feel that when you 'get going'. And that is difficult on public roads because you are simply going too fast. And I don't mean the speed limit : It feels like the car is going faster than you can see/process properly unless you are a professional driver. Closest most of us could get to Warp Factor !
It can be used as a DD but frankly it would be a bit much in terms of ride and ground clearance, even with the front axle lift. And a bit wasted because keeping it above 4000 rpm becomes a bit of a chore in time... but if you don't why buy it ? And it is a little bit "look at me" isn't it ?
The M2 Competition is really a very different car from the older M2. It feels as fast as a GT3 90% of the time (depending how you set it up) but more useable on public roads due to the driving position and the point and squirt nature of really great turbo engine. It is rated 410hp but rumoured to be closer to 430 (BMW trying to save M4 sales) and easily capable of 500 if you are mad enough.
If you track (or commute the Stelvio) then the GT3 will be the dogs etc For public roads I would take a Competition. I'm still thinking about what I just said !
But it is very close and you are talking about two of the finest cars on the planet (not to mention the cost) so you have to try them if you are serious.
IMO IMO IMO
Last edited: