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New Naim SBLs

Well the xovers are bedding in nicely, and I think my brain is starting to get a feel for what they are doing. Originally I wrote that the immediate impressions include:
  • Greater bass weight & extension;
  • Lower noise floor = More detail;
  • Even better imaging.
While I do think the weight is greater I don't think the extension is true, what IS true is an increase in CONTROL. Listening to complex pieces the soundfield doesn't collapse into a background set of tones. Bass instruments and sounds remain true to themselves, starting and stoping independent of whatever else is going on. This control allows me to hear whatever else is happening in the music, leading to more audible detail and better imaging.

Another plus is better treble. Cymbals have added sheen and sound more metallic. A positive that is shared by brass instruments.

Altogether macro-dynamics has taken a step forward. By this I mean that music swells and diminshes more noticably.

M
 
Suffolk Tony said:
Well done Mr Underhill! SBLs are such great speakers they deserve something better than the standard Naim crossovers. I did go active with my pair (as has been pointed out, Naim really designed SBLs for active use; the crossovers were a bit of an afterthought), and I stuck with that setup for 15 - 18 years, until SL2s eventually replaced them.

I'm quite tempted to ask Les if he fancies the challenge of fettling my passive DBL crossovers, but given how much hassle I caused him with fitting gyrators to my 362 SNAXO, I'm not sure he'd want to get involved!
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Happy to work on some Exakt filters for your DBLs, if you're up for it!
 
Mr Underhill said:
Yes, I thought this was an excellent thread, but in my case lead back to the same issue, even MORE boxes; not to mention it is not exactly pocket money. I would love to hear the system, if only he were closer.

M
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A single Akurate Exaktbox-i does the crossovers and all the amplification channels necessary.
 
Woodface said:
My passive SBLs never sound like an afterthought when I listen to them
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Don't think passive ever was an afterthought, though Naim were doing active as the top of the amplifier range before they did speakers, more that SBLs were always intended to be sold passive and active, the bolt on passive XO works great in that way. I'm not one for conspiracy theories, so i don't subscribe to the "they made the passive XO sound worse on purpose", to my ears active does give you a little more of everything SBL does well, but hey it is a lot more in boxes and £ to get there so you would hope so!
 
nobeone said:
Don't think passive ever was an afterthought, though Naim were doing active as the top of the amplifier range before they did speakers, more that SBLs were always intended to be sold passive and active, the bolt on passive XO works great in that way. I'm not one for conspiracy theories, so i don't subscribe to the "they made the passive XO sound worse on purpose", to my ears active does give you a little more of everything SBL does well, but hey it is a lot more in boxes and £ to get there so you would hope so!
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Naim have always been very good with a defined upgrade path within their range. I appreciate that some people hate this concept & bemoan the expense involved. The cost has put me off going active with naim but have always been happy with my current set-up
 
Woodface said:
Naim have always been very good with a defined upgrade path within their range. I appreciate that some people hate this concept & bemoan the expense involved. The cost has put me off going active with naim but have always been happy with my current set-up
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Exactly, and if you are happy, that is worth much more than any supposed improvement, more than that, let me say I suspect Les' nice XO are probably not going to bolt on to the back of your SBLs so you need to find space for them, and in going active not only did I need to buy a NAXO, HICAP and a 250, I also now have more audible transformer hum so I am looking to add DC blockers too! Buy some more music, enjoy what you have, and ignore my ramblings. The system isn't twice as good yet I now have twice as many olive boxes, is that value for money? Nope. Usual diminishing returns. I did it to scratch an itch i have had for probably best part of three decades. Best not to get the itch. Besides, we all know there is no end to this, why did I stop at SBLs, why not chase down DBLs or or or ... or I need to learn to be happy with what I have, something you have already got, now I'm jealous of that :)
 
nobeone said:
Exactly, and if you are happy, that is worth much more than any supposed improvement, more than that, let me say I suspect Les' nice XO are probably not going to bolt on to the back of your SBLs so you need to find space for them, and in going active not only did I need to buy a NAXO, HICAP and a 250, I also now have more audible transformer hum so I am looking to add DC blockers too! Buy some more music, enjoy what you have, and ignore my ramblings. The system isn't twice as good yet I now have twice as many olive boxes, is that value for money? Nope. Usual diminishing returns. I did it to scratch an itch i have had for probably best part of three decades. Best not to get the itch. Besides, we all know there is no end to this, why did I stop at SBLs, why not chase down DBLs or or or ... or I need to learn to be happy with what I have, something you have already got, now I'm jealous of that :)
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Ha, ha. To be fair naim have had plenty of money from me over the years; the reality check for me was seeing how happy people are with relatively modest systems. A man has to have a hobby though.
 
sunbeamgls said:
A single Akurate Exaktbox-i does the crossovers and all the amplification channels necessary.
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:)
Get behind me Satan!

I am happy with the improvement given me by the Avondale PXO.

At the behest of a friend I replaced my EAR534 with one of my bolt together CB250s .....ooooh, errrrr. Normally the Naim has been trounced by the 534, NOT in this context; more of a different mix of strengths.

M
 
The comments about PXO being an afterthought relates to them being the same for IBL through to SL2 (SL2 being a revision of lay-out). Credo’s and the other pair I can’t remember use the same box and values.
 
Mr Underhill said:
Get behind me Satan!
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Well indeed, Linn digital stuff to drive Naim speakers active is clearly 21st century devil's magik (sic), we all know good old 20th century Naim amps to drive Linn speakers is acceptable, or indeed Naim amps to drive Naim speakers if you missed out on the glory days of Briks and Kans, but never widdershins :p
 
nobeone said:
Well indeed, Linn digital stuff to drive Naim speakers active is clearly 21st century devil's magik (sic), we all know good old 20th century Naim amps to drive Linn speakers is acceptable, or indeed Naim amps to drive Naim speakers if you missed out on the glory days of Briks and Kans, but never widdershins :p
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he he :) Gidders is using the Linn digital front end and x-over to great effect with (Olive or CB, I can't recall) 250s into his SBLs.
 
sunbeamgls said:
he he :) Gidders is using the Linn digital front end and x-over to great effect with (Olive or CB, I can't recall) 250s into his SBLs.
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I bet! Would love to hear it, but have spent time and effort recreating my 90s dream system, so can't quite cope with the idea from a Salisbury centred universe :D
 
Had a enjoyable day last Friday listening to a friends system with a new 500dr, replacing his 300dr. Leaving MDS's system to one side, whilst acknowledging how brilliant it is, even with the unholy alliance of Naim and Focal, my focus since that day has been my own.

Another friend who was with us persuaded me to slot one of my old bolt together CB250 into my system, powering my newly refettled SBLs with the Avondale PXO - whoops. My expectation had been that the EAR534 would triumph, as it has with other such tests I have done over the years, well not here.

System Synergy Rules OK.

Over the last few days I have been comparing the following power amps through the SBLs:

  • EAR534;
  • Naim CB250;
  • Avondaled Naim CB250; and
  • Nord NC500.
Result = ACB250 > EAR534 = CB250 > Nord.

Of course, it is not a full slam dunk, these are all excellent amps. The 534 still wins with voices, but the ACB250 is a LOT closer, and as good with good files. With poorer recordings the 534 is kinder.

The Avondaled CB250 has greater detail and dynamics through the SBLs. It paints a soundstage that is a tad less 3D than the 534 BUT is more transparent and detailed. What I LOVE is the way it reveals the percussive way people play acoustic instruments, superb.

The 534 adds a warmth to the bass, and perhaps a slight thickening, but the ACB250 is as deep and faster.

Having done the rounds it is the ACB250 that I am listening to ....and toying with perhaps doing a 'next' step!

M
 
Mr Underhill said:
Over the last few days I have been comparing the following power amps through the SBLs:
...
  • Avondaled Naim CB250
...
Having done the rounds it is the ACB250 that I am listening to ....and toying with perhaps doing a 'next' step!
Click to expand...

When you say Avondaled Naim CB250, could you be more specific? Are we talking Avondale service, some wiring mods, replacement of amplifier PCBs with NCC200 or NCC220, replacement of PSU PCBs with HCR200, some combination of the previous list, or something I am unfamiliar with, would love to know. Glad you are clearly enjoying your "new" SBLs!
 
oooh so you are thinking NCC220 now?

EDIT: I should say I have wondered about NCC220 and HCR200 for my Olive 250s, but the cost is enough to make me think more than twice!
 
Interesting.

Thank you for posting your findings.

Recently swapped out a 250DR (2018) for an Avondale 250 - stage 3 . Immediately aware of improved detail , esp percussion. Sound stage improved also. Crazy when the Avondale is over 25 years old , i think (?) the conversion happened approx 10 years ago.


BTW The amp is on HF duty in an active Isobarik system.

Cheers
 
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