The 3k spend could be completely unrelated to the LP12
New Bearing for LP12--The Karousel
- Thread starter stackowax
- Start date
wow&flutter
pfm Member
Another review always welcome. Don’t let anyone tell you it’s Krap!
What is the spec of your LP12?
FireMoon
pfm Member
If it sounds better then brilliant however, let's not forget that the Linn Fanclub have just spent the last few years insisting that, the previous one was "prefect" and if it it could be bettered then Linn would already have released something new. The reality is, in any mechanical system there is always room for improvement there comes however, a point where those improvements versus the cost ratio becomes fiscally unsustainable within the given market.
The current iteration of LP12 I own is mechanically, the quietest TT I have ever regularly used bar none. In the big scheme of things that's probably not that important then again, who actually knows? People in the trade with far greater experience than I have who own similar setups have mouthed that which should be never spoken "A 6 grand third party Linn has far more in common with the official Linn at 27K than its similarly priced official Linn". There, someone has said it in public at last, that's what people really want to hear isn't it?
I recently played all four sides of "Tales From Topographic Oceans" and enjoyed it, it actually made sense, that's how good my current TT is. "Zen Arcade" still sounds like it was mixed by someone on acid wearing boxing gloves however, it makes a damned good fist of reassembling the shattered sonic remains of Husker Du into some cohesive semblance of a whole. For me and I can only speak for me, that's what I expect a TT to at least have a stab at and mine does.
This is one of the key aspects that so often is overlooked when we recommend any piece of kit. What do you personally listen to and how does that affect you opinion and that's exactly what it is, an opinion, on sound? For instance, if your aural diet is mainly EDM/Electronica/Trip Hop and all the other related sub genres then, the chances are the Technics 1200 is going to float your boat cos nearly everyone who works in those genres mixes with that particular TT in mind. My TT has to cope with everything from early Motown albums and 70s dub Reggae to full on Industrial, Stoner, garage rock and everywhere in between, it has to therefore, be a good allrounder.
That's really the spirit of PFM , for me anyway, in a nutshell. It's the one forum that is obsessed with sound in the Hifi world that has a membership whose musical tastes are wider than the choice of TTs currently available. As my mate said after we listened to "Let It Be" on my current setup and they have 3 pages of production credits on Discogs to their name; "That sounded like a demo done at Abbey Road in the late 60s". Now, that might not be what you're looking for from your record replay, if not, then don't go the third party Linn upgrade route. However, if that is what you seek then, there's an option that will give you exactly that, for a lot less moolah than the official Linn pathway.
2ManyBoxes
pfm Member
I've had my LP12 since the late 80s so just over 30 years. The bearing must have a dimple like Kirk Douglas. Still sounds pretty good though and I'm more than happy with the whole system.
And that's all that counts.
matteo.renesto
pfm Member
Yes
but most of the comments I read were related to Keel + Karousel or Radikal + Karousel or Urika 2 + Karousel or Ekos + Karousel etc.
M
forester
pfm Member
I read of a guy who refurbished the pre circus bearings despite their 'sealed' design, think he's still going. Having said that I agree that they don't wear out unless contaminated or dropped with the inner platter unsupported (or at least the rate of wear is so slow as to be negligible). I expect the new bearing improves information retrieval as much because of it's more rigid connection to the subchassis as from reduced friction.
Martyn Miles
pfm Member
I’m amazed this thread is still going.
I’ve played countless records on my original LP12 since it started,
and just enjoyed the music...
I’ve played countless records on my original LP12 since it started,
and just enjoyed the music...
I have owned my LP12 for nigh on 40 years. Last year I took a renewed interest in the technicalities of the hifi game. Everybody said buy a cirkus, but I wasn’t convinced the was anything wrong with the original. So I measured the spindle with a Moore and Wright micrometer and examined the tip with a Leitz microscope(I know how important brands are!). I could detect no wear. It also takes ages for the sub platter to sink back into the bearing housing. I am still using it but with a Tangerine sub, which is where the improved performance comes from. IMHO.
A Karousel with a Mober sub platter would be a possible upgrade for me if the bearing became available separately and it turns out to be as good as claimed.
A Karousel with a Mober sub platter would be a possible upgrade for me if the bearing became available separately and it turns out to be as good as claimed.
nitrous
pfm Member
I’ll bite.
Context:
Deck is a maple plinth, Keel, Radical (Acurate case), Ekos SE/1, Kandid, Ulrika, And now Karousel in place of 5 yr old Cirkus bearing. Rest of replay chain is 272/555Dr/250DR/PMC Fact.8. System is pretty revealing, at no time did I feel there was anything wrong with the previous bearing, in fact enjoyment levels were excellent
I didn’t need to sell my grandmother to buy the new bearing, this is my hobby, my ears, my enjoyment. So even if I have made a terrible mistake, it is my problem and no one else’s.
aural diet is a lot of Prog, female vocalists, Independent/alternative type of rock. Also a lot of electronic music like Tangerine Dream. Obviously the effect of the bearing is more apparent on some music Types more than others.
The sound:
Fairly subtle in some ways, until you realise that there is more dynamics, huge bass when on the recording and an absence when it isn’t one the recording. Quiet passages / surface noise is lower. Layering of vocal dubs is more apparent as are tones and intonations in voices and instruments. The different ‘notes’ of drums are more apparent, definitely a more defined upper bass/mid. Generally a very refined ever so slightly smoother sound.
Still early days yet, but I don’t feel I have waisted my money. No buyer’s remorse here. Neither do I think it has made the previous spec sound suddenly broken. If you have enjoyed the direction Linn haven taken the sound with recent upgrades you will enjoy this one.
Context:
Deck is a maple plinth, Keel, Radical (Acurate case), Ekos SE/1, Kandid, Ulrika, And now Karousel in place of 5 yr old Cirkus bearing. Rest of replay chain is 272/555Dr/250DR/PMC Fact.8. System is pretty revealing, at no time did I feel there was anything wrong with the previous bearing, in fact enjoyment levels were excellent
I didn’t need to sell my grandmother to buy the new bearing, this is my hobby, my ears, my enjoyment. So even if I have made a terrible mistake, it is my problem and no one else’s.
aural diet is a lot of Prog, female vocalists, Independent/alternative type of rock. Also a lot of electronic music like Tangerine Dream. Obviously the effect of the bearing is more apparent on some music Types more than others.
The sound:
Fairly subtle in some ways, until you realise that there is more dynamics, huge bass when on the recording and an absence when it isn’t one the recording. Quiet passages / surface noise is lower. Layering of vocal dubs is more apparent as are tones and intonations in voices and instruments. The different ‘notes’ of drums are more apparent, definitely a more defined upper bass/mid. Generally a very refined ever so slightly smoother sound.
Still early days yet, but I don’t feel I have waisted my money. No buyer’s remorse here. Neither do I think it has made the previous spec sound suddenly broken. If you have enjoyed the direction Linn haven taken the sound with recent upgrades you will enjoy this one.
Thank you
Your TT is a level above mine but it sounds like a very promising upgrade. I have an Ekos 2, Lingo 2, Cirkus. Will almost certainly do Karousel & possibly a Kore.
chris@panteg
pfm Member
When someone says it's relatively subtle, I'm much more inclined to believe it than 'oh a night and day transformation ' if the previous bearing was good then the difference with the new bearing should be relatively subtle, though obviously significant.
nitrous
pfm Member
i would say a Kore is an excellent upgrade with a Cirkus especially from the steel subchassis. I have a Kore on second deck. I didn’t like to say before but I may put Karousel on that deck as well.
nitrous
pfm Member
exactly, it is a nice addition. Generally Speaking it is a further refinement. It certainly has me forgetting the time and enjoying records all the way through. May play Tales from the Topograhic oceans later!
You could say that about either of the Linn's big bearing changes as in both cases you change the sub chassis at the same time as the bearing, so you don't know how much of the improvement is due to the bearing and how much to the sub-chassis. The subchassis obviously has to be doing something otherwise, why bother, right? And it doesn't really matter as you're buying the whole thing as a one anyway.
I've heard from several people that Linn knew that the advantage of the Cirkus bearing disappeared after it wore a bit. I don't know if that's true, I certainly sounds reasonable, and I could be partly why they chose to make the bus chassis part of the upgrade and make it incompatible with the previous bearing.
And yet people still buy turntables eh? In fact their popularity is increasing again? I'll be honest, I prefer my Saturn-R CD player to any turntable I've owned. Not because it delivers the ultimate in sound quality but it gets music out of any CD and I always forget about the machine and simply enjoy the music.
You clearly have no idea how ironic that is, because for a CD player, this is unusual. Dragging you into the music and making you forget about the mechanics is what turntables typically do very easily. That's why people still buy them, that's why they're growing in popularity and it has to be said that with the right records, the LP12 is one of the best turntables in the world at doing this.