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Nearfield monitors: Focal Shape 40 vs Genelec 8020D

gustav_errata

pfm Member
I'm in the market for some active studio monitors. These will be used for (mostly) listening to music while working from home, occasional writing/producing music, and some light mixing work (anything serious would be sent off to an engineer with a proper studio...). They will be placed on a desk (or possibly on stands just behind the desk) and they will necessarily be placed near the wall. I will rearrange things to be away from the corners though. The room they would be in is about (very quick measurements) 4.1m x 2.7m x 2.3m and, due to WAF reasons and other concerns, they would likely be placed along the long wall. The room is not yet treated, but it's something I would like to consider in the future. There is a possibility that I may get demoted to a much smaller room in the future, something like 1/3 of the size, very narrow.

Given the desktop usage, listening distance will be very much nearfield: if placed on the desk, I reckon it's a bit more than 80cm from my ears to the hypothetical location of the respective monitor.

I'm looking at a budget of hopefully around £300 per monitor (they're sold individually). I want to go above entry level, but there's no point in going way above without properly treating the room. EQ/DSP options are a plus, but I can do further room correction in software on my computer.

*bloop bleep click-click-click bzrrrzzrt kerching*

OK so after crunching all of the above numbers and doing a lot of reading online, I've largely narrowed the choice down to either the Focal Shape 40 or the Genelec 8020D. The next size up in each range (Shape 50, 8030C) are out-of-budget if purchased new, but are affordable used, however I think they might be a bit large for the space / listening distance. I'll also mention the Dynaudio LYD-5 as a wild-card (but stretching the budget).

The Shape 40 is happy to be placed close to a wall, but it may actually be a bit small for the current room (but perfect for the smaller room). The Genelecs are rear-ported but they have DSP that compensate for being close to room boundaries so it should be ok. They're about the same price (the Genelecs are usually 10-20 quid more, depending on the shop).

Does anyone have experience with either of these and can share their experiences, be they for hi-fi or for studio use? I know of no place around here where I could compare them, nevermind lockdown. I have yet to inquire about home trials, but obviously it's something I would like to do.

Or, does anyone have any other recommendations?

Before someone mentions it, yes, I have obviously considered Neumann KH 80 DSP, but they would stretch the budget and I don't have an iOS phone to fully take advantage of its DSP prowess. Also, yes, I have seen the relevant measurements (for Genelecs, Neumann, Dynaudio) and discussions on ASR.
 
I have the pre-DSP 8020s and in a desktop setup I find them more or less indifferent to the room: had them in 3 different rooms now, one of them quite difficult, acoustically, and they’ve sounded the same to me, I.e. good. Right now one of them is right in a corner. So with DSP I’m sure you’d have no problem at all.
 
Or, does anyone have any other recommendations?

From my experience a 4" midwoofer is too small at 1m for foreground listening at standard levels. This isn't to do with bass extension but clean transients. If you listen at less than standard levels then at some point this will cease to be an issue. In addition I find the unavoidable lack of bass from speakers with tiny cones intrusive. If you don't have experience of foreground listening to small speakers at close range and at the level you require I would suggest gaining some regardless of brands before spending any sums that are significant to you.

For your budget new I would be looking at £109-200 5-6.5" 2 ways possibly coaxial plus a £150-200 8-10" subwoofer. Of course your listening levels, bass presence, space requirements,... may well differ from mine but I thought I would hand on the experience.

DSP cannot correct cancellation dips from placing a conventional speaker near a wall because they are minimum phase. No amount of marketing BS can change the laws of physics.
 
Thanks for all the advice so far. In my wild youth I had monitors that were way too big for my space, sitting in an untreated room, and I always wondered why my mixes sounded like garbage with bass no louder than mouse flatulence.

That said, I think, unfortunately, a subwoofer is out of the question for me at present. The room is on the first floor, so I think a sub would end up rumbling the house, easily transmitting bass to the living room below, which will undoubtedly raise the ire of Mrs. Errata. I will be able to assess bass in my mixes by other means.
 
No help to the OP I'm afraid, but I've often wondered how "desktop monitors" such as the Genelecs, which are often listened to at distances as close as 50cm, achieve a downward-sloping frequency response that you typically get when you listen to a speaker in a farfield setup. Are these monitors tuned to provide a downward-sloping nearfield frequency response, or does the manufacturer expect the listener to EQ the speaker accordingly?
 
No help to the OP I'm afraid, but I've often wondered how "desktop monitors" such as the Genelecs, which are often listened to at distances as close as 50cm, achieve a downward-sloping frequency response that you typically get when you listen to a speaker in a farfield setup. Are these monitors tuned to provide a downward-sloping nearfield frequency response, or does the manufacturer expect the listener to EQ the speaker accordingly?

Generally they're tuned to achieve a flat frequency response in an anechoic chamber. Of course, no plan survives its first encounter with the enemy, being the room in this case. Once the monitor is in a room, even a well-treated one, all bets are off. Many (most?) monitors provide some knobs or switches on the back to provide, e.g. low and high frequency shelf adjustment and maybe some low-mid frequency EQ in order to help compensate for the room.

Edit to say (in very inaccurate terms, I'm sure): I think the bigger problem with nearfield monitoring, especially with larger monitors, is the lack of sufficient integration of the sounds eminating from the cone and the tweeter. For the 8020C, Genelec give a distance of >0.7m. For the Shape 40, Focal give 0.6m as the minimum.
 
No help to the OP I'm afraid, but I've often wondered how "desktop monitors" such as the Genelecs, which are often listened to at distances as close as 50cm, achieve a downward-sloping frequency response that you typically get when you listen to a speaker in a farfield setup. Are these monitors tuned to provide a downward-sloping nearfield frequency response, or does the manufacturer expect the listener to EQ the speaker accordingly?

Professionals listening to near field monitors at the mixing stage do not expect to be hearing the final sound. They are hearing a clearer reference sound which they will "translate" into what is heard on a decent hifi, over the radio, in earbuds, in headphones, etc... They will usually have low quality speakers around to help with the low quality end and the more serious will also include a separate mastering stage where high quality speakers are used in a reverberant but non-booming room typical of a (genuine) high fidelity setup in the home. Pro audio companies sometimes refer to such speakers as mastering monitors but they are really just high fidelity home speakers. That is, adequate cone area to deliver clean direct sound, flat on-axis, smoothly controlled off-axis to give a slowly and smoothly falling (direct+reflected) averaged frequency response in a room.

Sitting close to speakers in a room increases the level of the direct sound compared to the reflected sound. It roughly makes the sound a bit clearer, brighter but with a reduced sense of space. Equalising may improve the brightness a bit, adding a touch of reverb may reduce the clarity a bit but the reduced sense of space is lost (unless you add speakers to the sides and a lot of processing to improve things a bit). When sitting close to speakers the sound of a stereo signal is simply different in the same way that listening over headphones is different.
 
Apologies if this is not going to be much help!

With the lack of room certainty (potential to be demoted to a smaller space!) would it make any sense to prioritise a good (meaning familiar and what will be a reference regardless of space) pair of headphones?

You could still get some useful if not ideal small actives in your budget e.g. Adam Audio T5s.
 
Apologies if this is not going to be much help!

With the lack of room certainty (potential to be demoted to a smaller space!) would it make any sense to prioritise a good (meaning familiar and what will be a reference regardless of space) pair of headphones?

You could still get some useful if not ideal small actives in your budget e.g. Adam Audio T5s.

No worries, thanks! I got some Sennheiser/Drop HD-6XX (practically identical to 650's) a few months ago with exactly that thought in mind. I also have some AKG K240's and Y50's on hand for different views into the mix. So, I spend about 8+ hours per day with headphones on, which in itself was a motivation to get some monitors. I get a bit tired of wearing headphones and I'm particularly sensitive, for whatever reason, to extreme panning in headphones which makes me dizzy (to that end, I also bought a Sonneteer Headspace to try to improve that but I cannot hear any effect).

The main reasons for now aiming to add monitors into the mix (heh) are twofold. First, since I'll be working from home for the foreseeable future, I might as well enjoy the ability to listen to music without headphones while working. Second, I'm starting to get back into music production after 8 or so years off, and even then, the last 4 or so years of music production were exclusively in headphones anyway due to being a broke student who kept moving to different countries. So I'm ready to get back to the qualitatively different experience of producing with monitors.
 
I just measured the other room where I might move my desk and it's ~300x170x2.35 (remeasuring the current room, it's 420x270x235). According to the amroc room mode calculator, the smaller room will at least have more evenly spaced room modes (it falls in the "Bolt area"; the larger one falls a bit outside of it).
 
Are you in a mad rush to buy? I know what it’s like when the excitement takes over!
My suggestion, which hinges somewhat on where you are in the county and when COVID relaxes is to try some various monitors at a place like Funky Junk in North London. I’ve not been but they seem to ordinarily have a good selection, in a purpose built studio style space.
I am biased toward Adam Audio as I’ve just blindly bought some T7s and like them a lot. So much so that yesterday I just ordered the matching sub lol.
I’d still recommend a small satellite and sub system but understand that creates some complications. The Adam audio sub that matches the T series also has a an option to wire in a cancellation pedal to the subwoofer, so with those in mind who work late at night etc.
 
I'm not in a mad rush per se (although I am itching to get some). I aim to chat with a sales rep at a shop to see what I can do about auditioning some at home via return policies etc.

I had been ignoring the Adams for no particular reason but the A5X's look good too. Too many choices...
 
I just replaced my Genelec 1029a for Adam A7X and the difference is huge. The Genelec served me well in my home studio but the Adam’s are giving me a much better insight into the music. The imaging is great and they reveal problems in mixes much better. Of course the 820Ds may be a whole different ball game compared to my old 1029s
 
So I had a good chat with a dealer and, long story short, I am now enjoying the superb sound of some Focal Shape 50's. The stereo imaging on these is phenomenal. The bass extension is decent, considering the size (5" cone, down to 50Hz). No plans to send them back. Next purchase will be a calibrated microphone so I can tweak the controls a bit to tune in the sound. Anyway, thanks everyone for the advice.
 
Do Massdrop deliver to the UK?

Yes, I bought some HD-6XX from them. There is a very real risk of getting hit with VAT charges though.

Are you referring to the microphone that I mentioned? Since I don't have any kind of pro setup I'm thinking I'll just get the £31 Behringer ECM8000. It should be sufficient for my needs.
 
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Yes, I bought some HD-6XX from them. There is a very real risk of getting hit with VAT charges though.

Are you referring to the microphone that I mentioned? Since I don't have any kind of pro setup I'm thinking I'll just get the £31 Behringer ECM8000. It should be sufficient for my needs.

No, I was more thinking of the headphones. They seem to have some very good offers from time to time and work with certain brands to offer slightly modified versions. I would need to add VAT and see if it still competitive.
 
I just replaced my Genelec 1029a for Adam A7X and the difference is huge. The Genelec served me well in my home studio but the Adam’s are giving me a much better insight into the music. The imaging is great and they reveal problems in mixes much better. Of course the 820Ds may be a whole different ball game compared to my old 1029s

It has been quite a while since I have listened to Adam and other active Speakers at my friendly Absolute Music in Poole. Probably over ten years ago when I briefly contemplated to get some small studio bookshelves for home hifi use.

Two things put me off, firstly the industrial looks (though I find Genelecs 'egg' shape quite appealing) and the generally revealing sound balance which does not make for relaxing listening. - All the little monitors lacked bass compared to everything else but Adam's tweeters were super 'bright'. They may show up flat'ish on a graph but sounded everything else but. - Still, of the ones I tried the Adam (X7?) were one of the better ones if my ageing memory serves well and I could not afford the larger Genelecs.
 


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