Nanny State - what's your view?

[George J]

Has anyone considered - if we view this from the simply monetary aspect mentioned so far of treating someone on the NHS for self-inflicted illness - that those who live a saintly abstemious existence free from of all things naughty or dangerous to themselves may result in them living to a ripe old age and costing a fortune in State Person and old aged care?

Just a thought.

Best wishes from George

 

[blossomchris]

Has anyone considered - if we view this from the simply monetary aspect mentioned so far of treating someone on the NHS for self-inflicted illness - that those who live a saintly abstemious existence free from of all things naughty or dangerous to themselves may result in them living to a ripe old age and costing a fortune in State Person and old aged care?
Just a thought.
Best wishes from George

George, please try this ENJOY YOURSELF,

Bloss

 

[TheDecameron]

George, you may find this difficult to comprehend ENJOY YOURSELF,

Bloss

I’ve met your sort before. Exhorting people to ‘enjoy themselves’. What’s that about? it’s a total disgrace and contrary to the norms of society.

 

[tuga]

Has anyone considered - if we view this from the simply monetary aspect mentioned so far of treating someone on the NHS for self-inflicted illness - that those who live a saintly abstemious existence free from of all things naughty or dangerous to themselves may result in them living to a ripe old age and costing a fortune in State Person and old aged care?

Just a thought.

Best wishes from George

Actually I never understood why my friends needed to get drunk on a night out in order to have fun...

 

[George J]

I think the pursuit of enjoyment is a mistake, just as I think too much ambition is also a mistake.

What is crucial is inner peace, and contentment.

Neither of these to really can be found entirely within one's self so much as in gentle interaction with and generosity towards other people.

Selflessness is the greatest gift one can have. That does not mean you become totally abstemious of fun or enjoyment, but rather that one takes things in moderation. One may smoke a roll-up, and so what. Smoking sixty a day is ridiculous! One may take a beer or two, but ten pints a day is plain stupid.

One may eat red meat, but once or twice a week would be entirely sufficient.

Moderation in all things rather than cast iron abstention is a reasonable route. Kindness to others, even if you actually don't like them. It is amazing what can come from it. The grace of politeness makes even the toughest day easier, and over time it brings respect, which I happen to believe is the firmest foundation for lifelong friendship. It is a commitment of respecting people first and foremost, even those one does not like as such.

Of course it is not just a good thing, but actually essential to try to live a life that does not cause harm to others, but that is also like good manners and comes from respecting others - friends, those one knows who are not actual friends, and complete strangers alike.

Now can anyone live up to that philosophy, every single day? Nobody. Anyone will slip from it from time to time. It is the striving towards it that is crucial.

Unfortunately this attitude is far from fashionable, or perhaps even normal these days.

Best wishes from George

 

[Ponty]

The problem is that a lot of people don't WANT any responsibility.

We now live in a society where it's common for children to start school without having been toilet trained, for instance. When did parents stop giving a damn about their children?

Many can’t seem to eat properly with a knife and fork either. Don’t need those in McDonalds innit.

 

[Bob McC]

When my children started infant school over 30 years ago the headteacher would not admit children who were not toilet trained.
She was an inspirational head who died far too young.
No doubt any head trying that now would make the national press and be hounded out in a storm of protest.

 

[blossomchris]

I think the pursuit of enjoyment is a mistake, just as I think too much ambition is also a mistake.
What is crucial is inner peace, and contentment.
Neither of these to really can be found entirely within one's self so much as in gentle interaction with and generosity towards other people.
Selflessness is the greatest gift one can have. That does not mean you become totally abstemious of fun or enjoyment, but rather that one takes things in moderation. One may smoke a roll-up, and so what. Smoking sixty a day is ridiculous! One may take a beer or two, but ten pints a day is plain stupid.

One may eat red meat, but once or twice a week would be entirely sufficient.

Moderation in all things rather than cast iron abstention is a reasonable route. Kindness to others, even if you actually don't like them. It is amazing what can come from it. The grace of politeness makes even the toughest day easier, and over time it brings respect, which I happen to believe is the firmest foundation for lifelong friendship. It is a commitment of respecting people first and foremost, even those one does not like as such.
Of course it is not just a good thing, but actually essential to try to live a life that does not cause harm to others, but that is also like good manners and comes from respecting others - friends, those one knows who are not actual friends, and complete strangers alike.
Now can anyone live up to that philosophy, every single day? Nobody. Anyone will slip from it from time to time. It is the striving towards it that is crucial.
Unfortunately this attitude is far from fashionable, or perhaps even normal these days.
Best wishes from George

If you do not mind me saying, your post reminds me of a hippy Desiderata.

Why can you not do all you say and be bloody HAPPY! at the same time, or do we have top go round like one of those extras in that awful American series about hand maidens.

Bloss

 

[Ponty]

When my children started infant school over 30 years ago the headteacher would not admit children who were not toilet trained.
She was an inspirational head who died far too young.
No doubt any head trying that now would make the national press and be hounded out in a storm of protest.

I remember the Headmaster at my primary school (brilliant, everyone had total respect for him) ripping me a new one when I once forgot to hold the door open for my Mother. He was 100% correct, of course.

 

[thebigfredc]

the tv licence, as the cost of care, for old people is only imposed on those who have the resources to pay.

I agree. ALL state benefits should be means tested. Otherwise you get people working on minimum wage paying tax and NI to pay for well off old people’s living costs when they clearly don’t need it.

Social care for the elderly really is a subject for another thread. Needless to say it’s about time the country had a proper grown up discussion on this subject.

Ray

 

[tuga]

When my children started infant school over 30 years ago the headteacher would not admit children who were not toilet trained.
She was an inspirational head who died far too young.
No doubt any head trying that now would make the national press and be hounded out in a storm of protest.

Responsible parenting is hard work. A bit like governing, you must take some impopular decisions for the benefit of the community.

 

[Marky-Mark]

If I'd known at a young age what I came to learn by 50 I'd have spent my entire life becoming as adept as possible at gaming the system for every possible cent to live comfortably, and I would've been polite doing it. To the people who deserved that kindness.

 

[Snufkin]

Has anyone considered - if we view this from the simply monetary aspect mentioned so far of treating someone on the NHS for self-inflicted illness - that those who live a saintly abstemious existence free from of all things naughty or dangerous to themselves may result in them living to a ripe old age and costing a fortune in State Person and old aged care?

Just a thought.

Best wishes from George

Phillip Morris took this view back in 2001; its an interesting contrarian position:

The Public Finance Balance of Smoking in the Czech Republic was a 2001 report commissioned by Philip Morris's Czech division following concerns raised by the Czech health ministry that smoking's costs outweighed its fiscal benefits.[1][2] The study was conducted by Arthur D. Little and found that smokers' early mortality and cigarette-tax revenue, outweighed the costs of health-care and lost tax revenue from early death.[1] The study concluded through cost-benefit analysis "based on up-to-date reliable data and consideration of all relevant contributing factors, the effect of smoking on the public finance balance in the Czech Republic in 1999 was positive, estimated at +5,815 mil. CZK."[2

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Public_Finance_Balance_of_Smoking_in_the_Czech_Republic

 

[tuga]

Phillip Morris took this view back in 2001; its an interesting contrarian position:

The Public Finance Balance of Smoking in the Czech Republic was a 2001 report commissioned by Philip Morris's Czech division following concerns raised by the Czech health ministry that smoking's costs outweighed its fiscal benefits.[1][2] The study was conducted by Arthur D. Little and found that smokers' early mortality and cigarette-tax revenue, outweighed the costs of health-care and lost tax revenue from early death.[1] The study concluded through cost-benefit analysis "based on up-to-date reliable data and consideration of all relevant contributing factors, the effect of smoking on the public finance balance in the Czech Republic in 1999 was positive, estimated at +5,815 mil. CZK."[2

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Public_Finance_Balance_of_Smoking_in_the_Czech_Republic

It's all about the money.

My grandad died to cancer when I was in my mid teens, after first having one lung removed then part of the other. He also lost a metastasised kidney. I saw his skin grow ivory and his body emaciated and his breathing slowly deteriorating over two long horrid years...

 

[thebigfredc]

Hello Tuga,

This is a good question which gets to the heart of where the boundaries of the state/individual lie and is quite fundamental to how a country sees itself. For the French it could easily be the noble quest for liberty, fraternity and equality.

Judging by the posts so far, for us in Britain its all about tv licences, fags and dog shit.

Ray