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"Naimless" - New CD Source Required

James - I wonder if its noise from the computer source making it into some part of the replay chain. A well engineered CD player - dumping less crap onto the mains. I know some here run computers off non-main supplies - so perhaps they may be able to comment on the difference.
 
Just a quick update:rolleyes:

Things just didn't quite go according to plan .

Firstly i never got to hear the Raysonic (saw it- a weird looking player )

I have upgraded my Arcs to current specification (and sounding fabulous)

Home Demo Densen 440xs/Dnrg currently (a very nice player that i could happily live with )

Rega Isis this wednesday :rolleyes:

Sorry - just not ready yet for a Streamer :D


The biggest difference i can hear in my system going from Naim to Dynavector is all about presentation (Prat to Tone/Dimensionally)
Naims tends to be a bit more in your face with the voicing , slightly warmer sounding and the Cds3 definitely goes a lot deeper in the bass department

However DV/Dyna - its alot more lively ,ambient and more "real sounding" whilst retaining "Musicality " Big Time

Im not saying One system is better than the other , it really is "what floats your boat" - but the two systems do things differently - however the Dynavector excels with the Arcs (and im definitely not changing them :cool:)

Will give final update next weekend

Thanks guys
 
On a side issue (not directly related), do you think that prominent turntable manfucturers are making their turntables sound like computer/streaming audio?
Click to expand...

In short - yes.

(having failed miserably to make CD players sound like turntables for 30 years :)
 
If you weren't convinced by the Naim and you insist on sticking with cd, then a complete change to a 'voiced' valve based CD player may well be worth a shot.

At least it will in fact sound different to all other chip CD players.
 
linntroika said:
J

Home Demo Densen 440xs/Dnrg currently (a very nice player that i could happily live with )

Rega Isis this wednesday :rolleyes:
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The 440XS/DNRG is a great player in my estimation (and one which I prefer to the CDS3). But wouldn't the 475 be a closer cost comparison to the Isis?
 
:confused::confused::confused::confused::confused::rolleyes:

OK

Isis - Yes it is a very special player(and a bloody heavy one 2) , with probably the most accurate ,engaging analogue sound i have heard to date

Densen 440xs/Dnrg - very dynamic ,musical and involving it does have great synergy with the Dv / Arcs

My old CDS3 - Still a fabulous player - it makes a wonderful beguiling sound that is quite unique

Truth is i could live with any of these players and each excelles differently in different ways . Densen is a bit of a bargin , Isis reminds me of my Lp12 and the Cds3 produces a sound all of its own (with the widest soundstage)

Cant decide:(

One thing i have noticed after all this auditioning is you really do get a good workout changing all them CDs- Perhaps i should just wait for a Mac/Dac /Streamer that will rock my boat

On a final note the change to DV was very positive(and im not knocking my 52 it was a cracking amp)

Thanks for all the inputs :)
 
If you're open to streaming (???) that's the route I'd try to follow.

Do some blind tests and keep an open mind would be my advice!
 
LinnTroika

How would you describe the differences between the ISIS and the Densen? Both are on the shortlist for replacing my aging CDS2 (which I am happy with BTW). Although I've heard good things about both, I am biased towards the Densen because I've never been very impressed with the Rega 'sound' in the past.
 
hockman said:
LinnTroika

How would you describe the differences between the ISIS and the Densen? Both are on the shortlist for replacing my aging CDS2 (which I am happy with BTW). Although I've heard good things about both, I am biased towards the Densen because I've never been very impressed with the Rega 'sound' in the past.
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Hi Hockman

I've spent many hours A/B with various types of music (classical ,jazz ,pop , rock & female vocalists)

Im not very good at describing music very well (but hear goes:rolleyes:)

ISIS- is a "warm dreamy" sounding player and the first few second you listen to it you could swear you were listening to a high quality TT
It has a natural sound that is very engaging with a smooth presentation . It is an "in your face- Full Bodied" player but has soft ,mellow tones and sounds very dimensional .
Bass power is more significant with this player and vocals sound very natural

Densen - has a more "Open" presentation with an "airy spacious" feel to it . It is not as warm sounding as the Isis but still sounds very natural
Bass power is more punchy - not as deep as the Isis but better controlled(Naim/ Isis can sometimes sound bloated) .I would say the Densen sounds the more detailed of the two and definitely has the wider soundstage
The Vocals are more forward than the Isis and there is a sense that you get deeper into the music
The Dnrg does make a significant upgrade to the Cd player , 440 on its own can sound slightly digital and more harsh , adding the power supply brings out the analog in the player (similar to adding an Xps to a Cdx2)

Ive compared the above to the Cds3 - The Player has the Naim signature and "Musicality" you either like or dislike.Bass is deeper ,more powerful and extended .On my favourite tracks with the Naim( You know the tracks you demonstrate how good your system is to your friends:rolleyes:) the above dont even come close
I have not heard the Cds2 but im sure it carries similar characteristics.

However on many other Cds that the Naim didn't particularly sound great on the Densen / Isis excel - they just sounded "right" were the Naim struggled to get to the music (muddled)



If it were based on first impressions i would say i would favour the Isis - however on long term listening i seem to be playing the Densen more

So to some it all up on certain types of music /Cds each player can outperform each other

Choosing an Allrounder is going to be difficult but considering the price difference the Densen -Wins outright on this alone
If you have been used to the Naim signature for a long time the other players do sound different (rega would be the closest to the Naim )

Again as ive said before - NOTHING beats a home audition :D
 
Thanks for the detailed comments.

For me, the ability of the player to bring out the music on all sorts of recordings regardless of genre (including old and poorly recorded music) is important as I don't really listen to audiophile or 'demo' disks. It needs to properly reproduce the timing and (wide) dynamic range of the music.

I agree that a home audition is essential and an extended one at that. It's easy to get caught up with 'spotting the difference' between gear when doing short term A-B-A comparisons without getting a good grip on which player is able to provide better long term satisfaction.

Good luck on your quest. Have you not heard the Densen B475, and aren't you curious?
 
linntroika said:
Hi Hockman

I've spent many hours A/B with various types of music (classical ,jazz ,pop , rock & female vocalists)

Im not very good at describing music very well (but hear goes:rolleyes:)

ISIS- is a "warm dreamy" sounding player and the first few second you listen to it you could swear you were listening to a high quality TT
It has a natural sound that is very engaging with a smooth presentation . It is an "in your face- Full Bodied" player but has soft ,mellow tones and sounds very dimensional .
Bass power is more significant with this player and vocals sound very natural

Densen - has a more "Open" presentation with an "airy spacious" feel to it . It is not as warm sounding as the Isis but still sounds very natural
Bass power is more punchy - not as deep as the Isis but better controlled(Naim/ Isis can sometimes sound bloated) .I would say the Densen sounds the more detailed of the two and definitely has the wider soundstage
The Vocals are more forward than the Isis and there is a sense that you get deeper into the music
The Dnrg does make a significant upgrade to the Cd player , 440 on its own can sound slightly digital and more harsh , adding the power supply brings out the analog in the player (similar to adding an Xps to a Cdx2)

Ive compared the above to the Cds3 - The Player has the Naim signature and "Musicality" you either like or dislike.Bass is deeper ,more powerful and extended .On my favourite tracks with the Naim( You know the tracks you demonstrate how good your system is to your friends:rolleyes:) the above dont even come close
I have not heard the Cds2 but im sure it carries similar characteristics.

However on many other Cds that the Naim didn't particularly sound great on the Densen / Isis excel - they just sounded "right" were the Naim struggled to get to the music (muddled)



If it were based on first impressions i would say i would favour the Isis - however on long term listening i seem to be playing the Densen more

So to some it all up on certain types of music /Cds each player can outperform each other

Choosing an Allrounder is going to be difficult but considering the price difference the Densen -Wins outright on this alone
If you have been used to the Naim signature for a long time the other players do sound different (rega would be the closest to the Naim )

Again as ive said before - NOTHING beats a home audition :D
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Hi Linntroika,

I`ve got a Teddydac with a good transport. When reading your descriptions regarding the Densen how it sounds , I could imagine you would like the Teddy/transport combo. I used to have a Naim CDX many years ago and the Teddy is much better in most areas. If certainly brings out the music how it was intended to sound from a technicians point of view, in that particular time it was recorded. (Hope you understand what I mean, as you say its hard to describe sound)

Good Luck with your trials.

//Magnus
 
I have not heard the Isis but know a few sets of ears i trust that say it is very good. I heard a Densen 440 one time in a Shahinian system and thought it sounded 'nice'. Having owned a Naim CD555 and for the last 6 years a CDS3 i have not felt an urge to change my player at all. This is especially true after hearing an NDS with 2x555PS compared to my CDS3 as the latter is simply way more musically engaging to these ears.
 
I.D.C. said:
Because manufactures still advertise their CD players in HIFI magazines, magazines won’t tell you that Digital Streamers out perform CD players due to no moving parts. Cd suffer from error correction and jitter which ultimately affects performance.
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I don't want to open a useless discussion again, but this idea comes from a mis-interpretation of facts (this is actual error correction).

For a file to be read by the streamer's software, it must be somewhere: usually, this somewhere is a HD, that has moving parts. But even if it is not a HD, and just a SS memory, it must have reached the SS memory: if it's a private collection it usually consists of ripped CDs, and the CDs have been ripped by an optical drive, which doesn't work very differently from a CDP.

But even if you have downloaded music from a server, that server has, or has had, moving parts. So, this idea of having finally got ridden of moving parts is nonsense, pure wishful thinking.

It can be argued whether optical (CD)reading is worse than HD reading, but at the moment, in my opinion, the debate only leads to opinions. I have tried: with MacMinis into Squeezeboxes and with HDXs and CDX2s into DACs and so on. I must still hear a HD-based system sounding better than a good CD-based one.

My opinion only, of course, but let's not indulge in false hopes.

BTW, the quoted post is twice wrong: magazines do advertise streaming systems. Stereophile is leading a true campaign against CD, and pro streaming, since a couple of years to say the least. The magazine is 60% vinyl related trivia, 30% USB DACs, 10% CD (but music reviews are 90% CD-based....:D )
 
Agreed Max, i have yet to hear a streamer i would want to listen to. When i had a demo of a Naim NDX/XPS2/Unitiserve it bored me to tears and was soundly beaten on musical engagement by a CD5si played just after it. My opinion of the NDS with dual 555PS is the same, poor by comparision to my CDS3. Then again what would they have to sell if they didn't have a new range of streamers to.....
 
You should ditch the use of Naim cd players on a non-naim Amplifier.

They are designed to use DIN, so the signal earth/grounding arrangements all go to pot the instance you plug a Naim source via phono leads so that alone has compromised the Naim CDP's performance in this system context.

Clearly you wish to move away from the *classic-Olive-Naim* sound of the tonally forward prat-prat-prat-monay-it's-a-gas-prat-prat sounding way of playing music to something more 3 dimensional, detailed and decay orientated.

You can invest in sources that are deliberately voiced to emphasise those aspect by going for an American audiophile source.
 
Linntroika

If you still have the Isis it may be worth listening to it via its balanced output into the balanced in on the DV pre amp. Some prefer it connected this way.

L
 
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