Purité Audio
Trade: Purite Audio
Well it's not for me to pass judgement but we have sold four Weiss MAN units to Klimax DS owners, I guess they preferred it.
Keith.
"Naimless" - New CD Source Required
- Thread starter linntroika
- Start date
Well it's not for me to pass judgement but we have sold four Weiss MAN units to Klimax DS owners, I guess they preferred it.
Keith.
I.D.C.
pfm Member
Would not mind hearing that myself, what kind of price is it ?
linntroika
pfm Member
I never stated that i didnt like the Cds3- in fact i think its a fabulous player ( it does have the Naim signature and gels very well with a 52)- but i feel it is too well suited to Naim based systems
I went from a cdx2 to cds3 and it was a exceptional improvement in every way (particularly in how analogue it sounded)
I would not be interested in ANY digital media if vinyl was still mass produced today (please come back
) - a WTA would be the ticket alas this is not the case Everyone has their own thoughts on how music should sound - streamers / Dacs to me (so far) tend to sound very accurate but lack warmth and involvement
When i had Lp12/ekos/troika/lingo - music poured into my living-room by the bucket load with realism , warmth , dynamics & musicality (even though i know it may have been coloured , it was definitely more enjoyable to listen to)
Cds3 was the first player i owned to remind me of my Lp12 days
- so the search is on for a player that is compatible with my current setup and can deliver the sound that i aspire to
LOTUS HIFI
LOTUS Hifi
Plenty of dacs can beat the KDS/1 at its own game (precision, details, resolution). Plenty beat it for sheer musicality and emotion too, as does many cd players IMO.
I have sold around half a dozen kds in the last 2 years so know it fairly well. Its a good product for sure but being linn has a linn sound which you may or may not like and its also very expensive for what it is.
If you want the 'Kondo of DACS', try the new Vertex AQ which will show you exactly what is missing from the linn ds.
When you say about vinyl being mass produced today...depends on the music you like. I now only buy vinyl and listens to it 95% of the time (still have some things stored on a NAS which I listen to from time to time). I've found that pretty much everything new is available on vinyl as well as cd for much more than the cost of a cd. I appreciate that this may depend on the music in question but it might be worth having a look around the likes of amazon etc to see whether your music purchasing could be sated if you went with a predominantly vinyl system with maybe a cheaper CDP for when something might isn't available...
Avonessence
Hiking Consistency Rapporteur
Transports ...........
Sorry for the long post, just my two cents.
Michael
Thanks Michael for your reply.
I have heard the Linn Akurate and Klimax DS gear at home against my CDS3 at the time and kept the CDS3, then along came the Isis, CDS3 got sold.
I have heard various DAC's ranging from Weiss 202, Naim DAC powered by a 555PS all fronted from a MAC mini with fancy interconnect cables, a Rega Saturn CDP at the time had a much more engaging, musical and tonally accurate presentation than any of the streamers/DAC/computer audio gear that I have heard to date.
To my ears and IME (to date), streamers, DACs, computer audio do not do the engaging, musical and tonally accurate presentation to the same level that good CDP's do. I am not saying that what you have or what anyone else has is wrong, I am just saying that I have yet to be convinced that the current streaming/DAC/CA technology would be a replacement for my current CDP should I need to replace it.
My rule of thumb is:
If a manufacturer brings out a new product
1) It is because the current technology sales are falling and they need to replace it with newer technology, or
2) They can no longer produce the product because important components are no longer available, or their cost has increased reducing down the margin not making it a viable product to manufacture.
3) Dealers have put pressure on them to alter or bring in a product that they feel that they can sell more easily, or what their customer base allegedly want.
4) If Hifi was all about performance, manufacturers would all still be making the products they produced 20/30 years ago.
Best
James
Purité Audio
Trade: Purite Audio
James that is clearly not the case, in the case of the Weiss MAN, it is possible to choose any of your music ,play it in any order, create playlists etc by just touching your IPad, you can listen to media streams ,Internet radio podcasts etc , it is also a preamp from where you can control other equipment in your system, and it is also a CD player.
The quality whether playing the actual CD or the ripped CD is the same, and better than any CD player ( or other streaming product for that matter) I have had here.
A cd player just plays CDs.
Keith.
The quality whether playing the actual CD or the ripped CD is the same, and better than any CD player ( or other streaming product for that matter) I have had here.
A cd player just plays CDs.
Keith.
htm_1968
pfm Member
I am very surprised at some of the claims made by I.D.C. here. We had a KDS on demo, it was very good but we went an NDS which was musically much better. The NDS (and KDS) for that matter are no match for a properly set up vinyl rig, be it my LP12, my neighbour's 401 or an SME20 which we tried out before we upgraded the fruit box the last time. I would also make that claim for the other high end digital gear that I've listened to in the last year (Chord streamer, Audio Research DAC8 inter alia).
SteveS1
I heard that, pardon?
Very seldom are you comparing like with like so the opinions can be taken with a pinch of salt. I'd home dem with known recordings ensuring the same masterings are used. You often see "doesn't hold a candle to vinyl" type comments when in fact all that has been compared is a good mastering v not so good. That doesn't tell you anything about the format. An excellent mastering played in either format should be superb.
+1, I have a CDS3 though I do have an all Naim system with Focal speakers. What did you not like about the CDS3. I bought mine secondhand for £3k with a years warranty from a well known HiFi dealer, I consider it my best buy.
LOTUS HIFI
LOTUS Hifi
As James alludes to, the problem I have found with many DACs, highend or otherwise, is that many of them sound lean, stilted, bleached and somewhat mechanical. I am not an electronics expert but I understand that a thin sound is a by-product of a high quality DAC design.
In my experience, they have a really hard time of transcending the sense of hifi/gear/electronics. They can be very good hifi and the accuracy and precision can be off the scale. In this sense they can appeal hugely to people who listen more with their heads and arrive at a decision as to whether something is good or not by thinking and analysis, and also who have the sorts of systems which do not showcase their weaknesses and also to people who listen more to electronic music rather than real instrument. Certainly in my test/reference system though they struggle massively but then I have a hard time with nearly all solid state equipment. I have reached the point where it all sounds hard, bright, truncated with impossible to eradicate glare and hotness in the upper mids/treble ... even if its just a little.
The most musical and listenable DACS I have heard have all been NOS designs and tube based. I am sure someone will now say that they are the most innacurate ones or measure the worst or something of that nature but I only measure one thing and that's enjoyment and these dacs tend to score higher whereas others have me leaving the room, day dreaming out of the window or endlessley going from album to album trying to find something that holds my attention.
I will point out in parting that many of the DACS I have heard were more resolving and precise than my Isis valve with greater clarity but they were boring, sterile and flat by comparison. For enjoyment and sounding like a highend turntable, it has comfortably seen off every piece of kit i've had in here. I have absolutely no allegiance to it either and would swap it in a heartbeat if something bettered it. In fact I would much rather it was something more exotic, better looking with a more esoteric presence as that is much more style but I have to hand it to rega, they made something incredibly special.
In my experience, they have a really hard time of transcending the sense of hifi/gear/electronics. They can be very good hifi and the accuracy and precision can be off the scale. In this sense they can appeal hugely to people who listen more with their heads and arrive at a decision as to whether something is good or not by thinking and analysis, and also who have the sorts of systems which do not showcase their weaknesses and also to people who listen more to electronic music rather than real instrument. Certainly in my test/reference system though they struggle massively but then I have a hard time with nearly all solid state equipment. I have reached the point where it all sounds hard, bright, truncated with impossible to eradicate glare and hotness in the upper mids/treble ... even if its just a little.
The most musical and listenable DACS I have heard have all been NOS designs and tube based. I am sure someone will now say that they are the most innacurate ones or measure the worst or something of that nature but I only measure one thing and that's enjoyment and these dacs tend to score higher whereas others have me leaving the room, day dreaming out of the window or endlessley going from album to album trying to find something that holds my attention.
I will point out in parting that many of the DACS I have heard were more resolving and precise than my Isis valve with greater clarity but they were boring, sterile and flat by comparison. For enjoyment and sounding like a highend turntable, it has comfortably seen off every piece of kit i've had in here. I have absolutely no allegiance to it either and would swap it in a heartbeat if something bettered it. In fact I would much rather it was something more exotic, better looking with a more esoteric presence as that is much more style but I have to hand it to rega, they made something incredibly special.
SteveS1
I heard that, pardon?
Just use some transparent EQ to get what you want then. Once all the information you need has been resolved, shape to taste. Using equipment as some sort of tone control strikes me as a bit mad.
I.D.C.
pfm Member
Last year I spent a substantial amount of money on hifi more than what you pay for a golf gti. Not trying to sound smug here. Anyway before spending I auditioned a lot of hifi equipment in many retailers to make sure the right system was purchased. The Akurate aktiv system came out best for me that I could afford. The Linn klimax system was out of my price range. However the dealer let me hear a full aktiv Klimax system. Me personally, have never heard anything like it not even a good vinyl system it was truly breathtaking. The music felt alive you could actually feel the aura of music in the room , the space of the studio was also evident to the point you can hear breaths being taking by the musicians. Its an incredible system and truly worthy of a Linn reference system.
Steven Toy
Accuphase newbie
Firstly there is no such thing as "transparent eq," secondly, it isn't really entirely an issue of tonal balance.
TPA
Trade: Tiger Paw
I'd also add that there is no point having a bias against a streamer of some sort on generic sound quality reasons. There are streamer solutions out there that will be good (for you) as well as CD players. The inherent streaming process is not flawed any more than CD.
At this stage it really comes down to thinking about how you want to explore music in the future. There is absolutely no way I would contemplate moving back to a CD player today, having experienced the over whelming access to new and different music I would not be prepared to lose that under any circumstances. This is not something I had anticipated years ago when I first got a DS player, I also find it much easier to select and listen to my library.
There are obviously huge numbers of CD players and streamers that are better than the KDS, I'm sure there are and in some ways feel a bit guilty about not wanting something better, perhaps I'm easily pleased. In fact I don't even think about the player any more it's just gone full circle and become a 'music centre'.
The funny thing is that probably 20% of my listening is now MP3 at 320kps, hell that's probably blasphemy in these parts.
Portability and choice are the fundamental advantages of the digital format, there is little point in not taking full advantage of those today with a dedicated replay system that takes them fully in to account.
Mikas
pfm Member
+I
However, we all do the same. When we listening to equipment, we go for the one that sounds better to our ears, not for the one that is best on paper.
This is specially true with speakers.
Michael
Purité Audio
Trade: Purite Audio
Twenty years ago you might have been correct, certainly the DSP in the Trinnov and Genelec boxes that I use are completely transparent , and can hugely improve the sound of your system.
Keith.