If you use six then yes a bit of a problem, who still uses six analogue inputs these days?
Naim that tune...
- Thread starter Chris Tarling
- Start date
If you use six then yes a bit of a problem, who still uses six analogue inputs these days?
Gervais Cote
Predator
A NAP 160 BD in place of you 140 would get rid of all the possible harshness in the midrange.
I have a NAP 110, 160 BD and a 250.2 and the 160 is the sweetest of them all despite it’s not the perfect amp in terms of tone accuracy. I can listen to it all day long without any listener fatigue.
Very important, speaker cables need to be NAC A5, Linn K20 or similar and 4 meter long is the minimum. I tried many different cables and these ones are the ones giving me the best sound.
I have a NAP 110, 160 BD and a 250.2 and the 160 is the sweetest of them all despite it’s not the perfect amp in terms of tone accuracy. I can listen to it all day long without any listener fatigue.
Very important, speaker cables need to be NAC A5, Linn K20 or similar and 4 meter long is the minimum. I tried many different cables and these ones are the ones giving me the best sound.
I always thought the size of the transformer was bigger in a hi-cap than a flat cap & that this is pretty central to its efficacy?
I am not sure I would recommend a Nap250 anymore, they can sound great but do need servicing every 7-8 years. Coming from an ex 252/scap/nap250 user I just don't think they are the only game in town & would listen to alternatives.
I am not sure I would recommend a Nap250 anymore, they can sound great but do need servicing every 7-8 years. Coming from an ex 252/scap/nap250 user I just don't think they are the only game in town & would listen to alternatives.
You are not the first to say this about Naim gear, especially of that vintage. It's a particular sonic flavour, and it's not for everyone. If you like it, then sure, get on the upgrade ladder and have fun. It's not a cheap ladder, but if you like what you get then great. Others may buy something else. There is a LOT of choice out there for the second hand sale value of your current Naim gear, so you can go any way you please.
wylton
Naim and Mana member
Me! I run 4 x turntables for a start, then there's the Nakamichi & the Auralic Aries mini.
- Phono Garrard 401
- Phono 1
- Phono2
- Tape
- CD
- Aux
Eyebroughty
JohnC
Hi Chris,
Might as well put my thoughts into the mix.
I have a Naim 12s (dual/split railed) I use a Hicap then into a CB 250. Some say the 12s is one of the better pre amps Naim ever made, it certainly is better than a 32.5 by some way.
I use Linn K20 and Naim interconnects my sources are an LP12/Ittok/Karma and a Linn Majik Streamer into Shahinian Super Elfs when using the Naim system, sometimes the Linn Saras if I want the walls to shake.
I have other pre and amps, a full Linn system including Akurate 212 speakers and Linn Saras, I also have the full Quad valve Classic II with QC24 pre amp.
Each system has different things that it brings to the listening experience.
The Naim has a forward quick sound the image does not have the depth the Quads have, however on some types of music it rocks, which is why I keep it.
The complete Linn system is fast and dynamic with images you could almost touch, much faster than the Naim, the leading edges are so easy to make out, the image is a bit flat so not 3D like some systems give, but again on certain types of music it sounds amazing, I use Audioquest Mackenzie interconnects and Kimber 8TC with the Linn system.
The Quad valve set up into Shahinian Super Elf's is not that fast, it is nice and easy, quite stunning 3D image, nice on simple stuff, but it won't make Pink Floyd rock the room however on female vocals it is stunning the emotion it brings is better than the other two systems I have, I use Mogami cable for both the interconnects and speaker cable and Eichmann plugs for the interconnects and speaker cable.
I used to have Shahinian Arcs but they are on long term loan so will get another pair of Shahinian speakers again, soon I hope.
I have used the Linn Majik DSi integrated, all in one streamer, pre and amp, if I was starting new I would buy one, yes second hand, they are great, the new Linn Majik integrated I would not buy.
Basically the type of music you mostly play will make a difference to what HiFi will sound good to your ears, so if you have a system that sounds fine on most things you listen to, don't change, play more music.
The 72 has a sound that is slightly different to the other Naim pre amps, some prefer them, maybe you fall into those that do not, changing the power supply or pulling boards will not change it's basic sound signature.
The biggest change you can make to any HiFi after getting your room right is speakers, try and listen to some Shahinian, you might be very surprised.
All the best on your quest.
Cheers
John
Might as well put my thoughts into the mix.
I have a Naim 12s (dual/split railed) I use a Hicap then into a CB 250. Some say the 12s is one of the better pre amps Naim ever made, it certainly is better than a 32.5 by some way.
I use Linn K20 and Naim interconnects my sources are an LP12/Ittok/Karma and a Linn Majik Streamer into Shahinian Super Elfs when using the Naim system, sometimes the Linn Saras if I want the walls to shake.
I have other pre and amps, a full Linn system including Akurate 212 speakers and Linn Saras, I also have the full Quad valve Classic II with QC24 pre amp.
Each system has different things that it brings to the listening experience.
The Naim has a forward quick sound the image does not have the depth the Quads have, however on some types of music it rocks, which is why I keep it.
The complete Linn system is fast and dynamic with images you could almost touch, much faster than the Naim, the leading edges are so easy to make out, the image is a bit flat so not 3D like some systems give, but again on certain types of music it sounds amazing, I use Audioquest Mackenzie interconnects and Kimber 8TC with the Linn system.
The Quad valve set up into Shahinian Super Elf's is not that fast, it is nice and easy, quite stunning 3D image, nice on simple stuff, but it won't make Pink Floyd rock the room however on female vocals it is stunning the emotion it brings is better than the other two systems I have, I use Mogami cable for both the interconnects and speaker cable and Eichmann plugs for the interconnects and speaker cable.
I used to have Shahinian Arcs but they are on long term loan so will get another pair of Shahinian speakers again, soon I hope.
I have used the Linn Majik DSi integrated, all in one streamer, pre and amp, if I was starting new I would buy one, yes second hand, they are great, the new Linn Majik integrated I would not buy.
Basically the type of music you mostly play will make a difference to what HiFi will sound good to your ears, so if you have a system that sounds fine on most things you listen to, don't change, play more music.
The 72 has a sound that is slightly different to the other Naim pre amps, some prefer them, maybe you fall into those that do not, changing the power supply or pulling boards will not change it's basic sound signature.
The biggest change you can make to any HiFi after getting your room right is speakers, try and listen to some Shahinian, you might be very surprised.
All the best on your quest.
Cheers
John
You're changing a lot in short space of time, which is seldom a good idea. For instance I'm not sure the Rega will suit the 72-based amp. It was designed to suit the fuller sounding eighties LP12.
If you're not careful you'll end up with a sound you don't like and with no idea why.
If you're not careful you'll end up with a sound you don't like and with no idea why.
Chris Tarling
Yellow Hound
That's a really fair point.
As of this moment, due to all the variables involved with the Naim kit, I'm leaning towards drawing a line under it and looking for an integrated amp that's the best match between my sources and the new KEFs.
But there's no need to rush - I want to do more listening with the new NAC72 and my updated NAC92.
It's all complicated at the moment by the fact that new gear is off limits to listen to.
Did you get to hear the R11's show off their best before purchase?
2ManyBoxes
pfm Member
I don't know the 92 as I went from a 42.5 to a 72, both HiCapped but IIRC there was more energy to the sound. Music became less of a 'nice but easily ignored' into a more intense thing that demanded more of my attention. Ultimately this is tiring but it's OK because when you are listening the music sounds so good 
Having said that, I think you could look to your room acoustics a bit. The 72 might be releasing a bit more treble energy about the place but you can damp this out if you're careful. Look for the first reflection points by sitting where you normally listen and then looking at the tweeters. Now try to find a point on the side wall at that level where the sound is hitting and bouncing off at the same angle. If you put some acoustic damping on the wall at that point it could solve it.
Whatever you do don't look at the System Pics 2021 thread for the recent posts. There's a chap on there who has really gone for it with enough bare damping panels to sink a battleship Buy some of those pictures printed on canvas and stuff some acoustic tiles up the back.
If the reflection point is a window then curtains with thick thermal lining could be the answer.
I've been badly bitten by a treble problem that I thought, like everyone says, was down to Naim kit being bright, replace the lot! It turned out that a cabinet on a side wall needed turning by 10 degrees to the wall so that the first reflection wasn't going straight down my lughole. In the meantime I'd spent £££££s trying to fix it
I used to run Linn Keilidhs but they've got half the number of bass drivers that your R11s have. Even a 250 struggled to keep control of the bass. I think those sort of speakers need a really, really beefy amp like a Krell or Martin Logan that come on a pallet.
Your planar 10 must be producing more deep bass than the 3 it replaced.
I think your system is unbalanced, I'd go back a few stages in speakers and forward a few in amps. You're asking a bit much of a small amp to keep control of those.
Having said that, I think you could look to your room acoustics a bit. The 72 might be releasing a bit more treble energy about the place but you can damp this out if you're careful. Look for the first reflection points by sitting where you normally listen and then looking at the tweeters. Now try to find a point on the side wall at that level where the sound is hitting and bouncing off at the same angle. If you put some acoustic damping on the wall at that point it could solve it.
Whatever you do don't look at the System Pics 2021 thread for the recent posts. There's a chap on there who has really gone for it with enough bare damping panels to sink a battleship
Buy some of those pictures printed on canvas and stuff some acoustic tiles up the back. If the reflection point is a window then curtains with thick thermal lining could be the answer.
I've been badly bitten by a treble problem that I thought, like everyone says, was down to Naim kit being bright, replace the lot! It turned out that a cabinet on a side wall needed turning by 10 degrees to the wall so that the first reflection wasn't going straight down my lughole. In the meantime I'd spent £££££s trying to fix it
I used to run Linn Keilidhs but they've got half the number of bass drivers that your R11s have. Even a 250 struggled to keep control of the bass. I think those sort of speakers need a really, really beefy amp like a Krell or Martin Logan that come on a pallet.
Your planar 10 must be producing more deep bass than the 3 it replaced.
I think your system is unbalanced, I'd go back a few stages in speakers and forward a few in amps. You're asking a bit much of a small amp to keep control of those.
That's because the Keilidhs were what is technically know as 'a bit shite'. Linn covered up the shortcomings of their speakers by making them all active. You shouldn't need a massive amp to make a budget speaker sound ok.
Jono_13
Duffer
If want to really simplify, add streaming and stay Naim try an Atom if you can... Mine is a great match to my Rega RP3, and I will be looking to move to a P8/Exact this year.
joe9407
actress/activist
Hi Chris,
Before you chuck everything and start over, I think it would make sense to try to optimize what you already have. Olive Naim amps will want to see the aforementioned Naim or Linn speaker cables, or the Witch Hat cable, so I'd start there. (If you decide to move on from Naim, these cables will work with whatever you decide to get, so no harm done.) Next, I recommend trying just one of your Naim 90s rather than bi-amping, as this may give a more relaxed presentation. Last, it would make sense to try a (serviced) Hicap in place of the Flatcap -- if it doesn't help, you can sell it on for little to no loss.
If none of these steps work, I like the idea of trying a Naim integrated. An original Nait 5 would be excellent (I've had one and it took a 282/250 to substantially improve upon it) and would look good with your Rega gear.
Hope this is helpful!
Joe
Chris Tarling
Yellow Hound
Wow - they seem a good buy at that price. Would certainly be interesting to see how they compare with what I have.
They really weren't. Keilidhs worked fine passive. I ran mine with a Pioneer A400, then a Quad 303, then 405. All fine. At that time I visited a friend with the full LP12/Aro/Armageddon - Naim 52 - 135 - DBL rig and I thought it sounded harsh and strident. That rig could have made Frank Sinatra sound like Margaret Thatcher. I came home and stuck my lower spec LP12 on, Quad, Keilidh, oh that's better.
Kabers I do agree with you, a friend had, still has, a passive pair, and I don't like them.
I tried a LOT of speakers up to £1000 to match the Keilidhs I had in the 90s/noughties, none bettered them.
On passive Keilidhs, I think they can sound really enjoyable but can also sound muffled and shut in when partnerred with the wrong kit or in the wrong room. Always found the bass well controlled though.
Agree that it's certainly good to listen to lots of different kit and the HiFi shows can help there as well. There's a limit and point where I feel I have to lay down roots though, or I'll just be constantly trying new kit for the rest of my life. For me, a few key components (Kans, pre-Cirkus LP12, etc.) really make me tick and my setups are now built to work aorund them. As also said, building a system to suit the room is important too.