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Naim that tune...

Chris Tarling

Yellow Hound
Currently making some changes in my system following a small windfall...

Previously:
Rega Planar 3/Elys 2/Neo modified with SRM/Tec Silent Base, Tangospinner belts pulley sub-platter bearing and platter, Michell Tecnoweight
Meridian G06.2 CD
Naim NAC92
Naim Flatcap
Naim 90 x 2, bi-amping the speakers
B&W P5 loudspeakers

All of the Naim equipment was serviced and modified as far as was reasonable by Sean Jacobs at Custom Hifi Cables in Spring 2019.

Latest changes:
Rega Planar 10/Alpheta 3, Aria phono stage on order
Witchhat Naim interconnects on order
KEF R11 loudspeakers installed.

Naim NAC72 (serviced in Spring 2019) being evaluated...

So the NAC72 was a bit of an impulse buy - it came up for sale and as it was in excellent condition, and crucially recently serviced, I jumped at it. When I bought the KEF R11s my fear was that my amp set up would just not be up to the job of driving them and I was entertaining ideas of a NAC72, 2x NAP140 set up.

I had hoped it would be a great step up from my NAC92 but curiously my initial impressions are not favourable. I am finding the midrange glassy and strident. Detailed, but fatiguing.

Loudspeaker cable currently is a high sliver content industrial cable - I have some left on the roll in the garage which may remind me exactly what it is.

Do I persevere with going forward, or go back...?

Going forward I'm still thinking of the bi-amped NAP140s, probably with a TeddyCap PSU added to replace the Flatcap.

But my experience with the NAC72 has really thrown me - I thought it would work well with the Flatcap and NAP90s.

Am I seeing a fundamental mismatch with the strident mid range or something that can be tweaked, maybe Witchat N2 loudspeaker cable would be worth trying?

If I had more cash I'd probably sell the Naim gear and look seriously at the Hegel H390, which I believe is a good match for the KEFs.

I would welcome your thoughts please...
 
I used to run a NAC 72 and it was much improved by a hi-cap - initially CB but then new HCDR ( which was better) so if you could source a reasonably priced and serviced HC I would try that before giving up. A Teddy PSU as suggested by you should bring similar benefits - I have a Teddy XPS but haven’t heard the Hi caps etc. I haven’t heard a 92 so can’t comment on its sound signature.
 
I used to run a NAC 72 and it was much improved by a hi-cap - initially CB but then new HCDR ( which was better) so if you could source a reasonably priced and serviced HC I would try that before giving up. A Teddy PSU as suggested by you should bring similar benefits - I have a Teddy XPS but haven’t heard the Hi caps etc. I haven’t heard a 92 so can’t comment on its sound signature.

Do you think a different PSU would really change the character that much?
I appreciate that running an NAC72 with Flatcap and NAP90s isn't really what Naim intended....
I guess I'm trying to understand the source of the 'imbalance' I'm hearing.
 
I had an early flatcap which I used on a CD5 but never used it on a preamp. The effect of the hicap was to boost bass and clarify the sound mix. DR added more bass! I was running NAp180 at the time.

One other thought - if the 72 has been recently serviced - has it been run in afterwards? There may be benefit in leaving it powered up for a period of time to settle down?

if the sound of the existing kit was ok I’m not sure that the loudspeaker cable will be the problem but Witch Hat N2 is designed for Naim so you could give it a try. I think they do 30 day returns.

John
 
Thanks for your thoughts John.
The NAC72 was serviced at about the same time my equipment was being worked on (Spring 2019, but by a different co) so should be well run in.
Yes that's my thinking on the loudspeaker cable but the 30 day Witchhat trial makes it an easy way to see if that change is a benefit.
 
I used to have 72 hi 140 years ago so memory is a bit ropey but currently enjoying Rega Elex r very much. I'd struggle to return to multi box amps when integrateds are this good.
 
I used to have 72 hi 140 years ago so memory is a bit ropey but currently enjoying Rega Elex r very much. I'd struggle to return to multi box amps when integrateds are this good.

I do see your point - it's a key concern of mine.
Multi-box solutions present a whole word of variables - the combinations of various boxes combined with the means of connecting them.
I'm concerned that I could throw money at this 'issue' changing this box, that box, that interconnect and not actually hit my goal of listening to enjoyable music.
 
I really would treat yourself to a HiCAP or Avondale/Teddy equivalent. A FlatCap's not going to show the 72 in its best light.
 
Since you don't need them (you seem to have an external phono stage), have you thought about removing the phono cartridge boards from the 72? (quite a few older threads discuss this, "board-pulling" is completely reversible if you are gentle {your 72, your responsibility, your risk} - just read it up first to avoid removing the wrong ones, I no longer remember the board numbers since I moved on after 14-15 years of Naim some time back)

I found that the overall sound of the 72 improved when the phono boards were removed and replaced by straps (if you heed that input as a line level one). I found the same with the buffer boards on the tape output if you don't record cassettes any more :)

I used an olive Hicap, a Teddy mk2 and mk3 and an Avondale TPX2 on my 72 and all were much better than feeding it from the 180. Overall I preferred the Teddy (either mk) for several reasons - no hum, small size, no hum, nice sound, no hum and Teddy, like Les at Avondale, is a great person to deal with.
 
I'm not trying to be controversial, but how about something with tone controls? I used to have a NAC72, HiCap, NAP140 and found myself wanting more control. Then I had a Quad 34/306 and greatly enjoyed being able to tweak the sound without changing speakers (or cables :rolleyes:). Since then I've only had preamps/integrateds with tone controls, but I'd also consider MiniDSP as another (possibly better) solution.
 
I have a 52 not a 72 anymore but similar sonic signatures, I tried a teddy supercap instead of the Naim a few years ago, I didn't like it there as although the detail and overall clarity was improved it sounded a little softer around the edges (it did however sound fantastic powering a Prefix). Much of that was down to the speakers I think, different speakers sound different obviously, the 72 is a great amp I'd persevere for a while, try a Teddycap or a Hicap and see what you think, you may be surprised, also a 140 has a bigger sound than the 90, that will make a difference but stick with one unless you want to drive active speakers
 
Hi Chris,
I jumped into Naim when they released the Nait 3 & 92/90.3 combo. I preferred the 92/90.3 over the 3 as it had just a little more grunt. After a while I added a flatcap. That system was actually all I needed. It's just a very musical combination! Being bit by Upgraditis and due to the Naim-forum I went up the Naim-ladder. I didn't like the 72/140 much. I swapped the 92 for a 102 (with napsc + HC) and that was a big improvement; the sound opened up. Then I added a 180. I don't remember how much better it was than the 90.3. So maybe not that much. Later on I went 82 blablabla.
What I want to say: there's a lot of opinions about Naim and the best Naims. The 92/90.3 and the 102 weren't considered top class. However, these were the items liked most. So if your ears tell you the 72 isn't an upgrade, well maybe it isn't... :)
 
Many years ago, I upgraded from a NAC 32.5 to a NAC 72 and was disappointed tbh. I later swapped over to a NAC 102 and that's what I'm using now, pending a NAC 52 at some point.
 
All very interesting - thanks!
I've been corresponding with Sean Jacobs at Custom HiFi Cables who did the service and upgrade work on my Naim kit in Spring 2019.
He feels that a Hicap/TeddyCap would be backward step given the work undertaken on my Flatcap - it now contains his regulator upgrade so the only Naim bits left are the case and transformer.
He thinks I would be better off looking for a NAP250...
 
Have you listened to other amps? You might find Naim is just not for you after all. I think Naim is very decent kit and have had quite a bit of it but now run a Yamaha integrated. It’s just so much less hassle and sounds excellent (much cheaper too).

PS have you heard the Naim end point which you’re aiming for? No point blindly climbing a ladder if you don’t know if you’ll like it at the top.
 
I bought a new 272 to use with my nap140, lovely pre amp with the 140. Lots on eBay for peanuts. Now using a 250dr better still, and you don’t need a separate ps with the 272 and it streams.
 
I bought a new 272 to use with my nap140, lovely pre amp with the 140. Lots on eBay for peanuts. Now using a 250dr better still, and you don’t need a separate ps with the 272 and it streams.

Interesting. I wonder how that compares to a NAC 52? It's certainly a lot cheaper!
Edit: the number of analogue inputs would be the problem for me; the 102 has six and I use all of them.
 


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