Naim stock cables, any mileage in changing them?
- Thread starter Andrew C!
- Start date
suzywong
Wot, no electrons?
Hmmmmmm, what I’ve bought purports to be a Hatpin 5 - at least that’s what is says on the photo of the box, so we’ll see what turns up........
Otherwise I’ll have to fire up ye olde soldering iron; I know I’ve got some PREH connectors around here....somewhere!
suzywong
Wot, no electrons?
That was my impression with my two WH DIN-XLR cables. But as we all know, all competently designed cables sound the same, so I fully accept that I am delusional.
suzywong
Wot, no electrons?
Yup, the Superlink is on the bucket list....probably in the New Year....
But while you’re here, Mark, a couple of questions regarding cable#2, purely for interest's sake.
1. When using standard SNAICs from Supercap to 82, I presume that the signal wires in cable#2 are unconnected and hence floating wrt secondary return. If so, would there be any benefit to removing them completely?
2. Also, in the case of running an 82 from a Supercap is the secondary return wire in cable#2 actually needed?
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MJS
Technical Tinkerer
There are no connections to the signal pins on the second hicap socket on the 82, so there's nothing to be gained by removing the leads.
You are correct that there is a second 0v return in that socket - this is purely for the second hicap. However it is also connected to 0v in the supercap so if using one of those there are two 0v connections through different leads. In that case I'd be content to remove the 0v from the supercap end.
The Superlink replaces the 4 pin link plug with a multi-pin socket. This can also operate as a link plug so you can continue to operate the 82 as before, or use the custom lead we provide and power it from 10 rails in the Supercap. In that case only one 0v connection is used.
You are correct that there is a second 0v return in that socket - this is purely for the second hicap. However it is also connected to 0v in the supercap so if using one of those there are two 0v connections through different leads. In that case I'd be content to remove the 0v from the supercap end.
The Superlink replaces the 4 pin link plug with a multi-pin socket. This can also operate as a link plug so you can continue to operate the 82 as before, or use the custom lead we provide and power it from 10 rails in the Supercap. In that case only one 0v connection is used.
suzywong
Wot, no electrons?
So, I put repacked the stock SNAIC5 (cable#1 from SCap to 82) with the WH Hatpin5, and ran my usual “test tracks”.
It works. Very nicely.
EDIT: more testing - I hear (low level) stuff I haven’t heard before*, weird!
OK, so maybe I don't recall having heard before.......
It works. Very nicely.
EDIT: more testing - I hear (low level) stuff I haven’t heard before*, weird!
OK, so maybe I don't recall having heard before.......
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Andrew, any update on the cables? I will share mine here. Posted this on the Naim forum as well:-
I have lived with the full loom of Chord Signature TA with my 282/HCDR/250DR for more than a year now. I recently entertained the possibility of a new pair of Proac Tablette 10 Signature and thought of trading the SNAIC and 4-pin DIN to XLR for the Proac. I didn't realise that I have spent more than £1500 for the Chord Signature (3 pairs). The Proac Tablette 10 Signature actually costs less than this!
To cut a long story short, I took out 2 Chord cables from the system and replaced them with the standard Naim cables. The intention is to trade them in for the Proac if I could live with the standard cables (although previously proven to be futile)
The 2 cables that were replaced:-
1) SNAIC 5-pin to 5-pin (between 282 and HCDR)
2) 4-pin DIN to XLR (between HCDR and 250DR)
After listening to familiar music with the standard Naim cables for about 1 hour, the differences were apparent. The impressions were further reinforced by returning to the Chord cables. Music sounds more mushy with the Naim cables from top to bottom. There is a loss of definition with the notes as everything sounded softer. With the Chord, the treble soars and the tone of the piano has more energy and vitality. Piano sounds duller with the standard Naim cables.
The overall difference in presentation is from top to bottom, from the bass, midrange to the treble. 2 main differences between the standard Naim and Chord Signature TA as follows:-
1) The edges of notes are more defined and solid with the Chord, softer and mushier with the Naim.
2) More energy and vitality with the Chord, flatter/duller sound with standard Naim especially with piano
A note is I am using Harbeth Super HL5 Plus speakers, a loudspeaker which has been labeled as boring and dull by some. Folks who own brighter and more dynamic sounding speakers might find the standard Naim cables to work perfectly fine, and this was shown in the earlier thread (Part 1) which i posted last year.
For folks who want a more lit, dynamic or brighter sound at the extremes, you might want to look at the various alternatives, not only the Chord Signature TA. Folks who have brighter sounding speakers, the flatter or duller presentation of the standard Naim may be a better fit.
Looks like I need to stay with the Chord cables after all.
I have lived with the full loom of Chord Signature TA with my 282/HCDR/250DR for more than a year now. I recently entertained the possibility of a new pair of Proac Tablette 10 Signature and thought of trading the SNAIC and 4-pin DIN to XLR for the Proac. I didn't realise that I have spent more than £1500 for the Chord Signature (3 pairs). The Proac Tablette 10 Signature actually costs less than this!
To cut a long story short, I took out 2 Chord cables from the system and replaced them with the standard Naim cables. The intention is to trade them in for the Proac if I could live with the standard cables (although previously proven to be futile)
The 2 cables that were replaced:-
1) SNAIC 5-pin to 5-pin (between 282 and HCDR)
2) 4-pin DIN to XLR (between HCDR and 250DR)
After listening to familiar music with the standard Naim cables for about 1 hour, the differences were apparent. The impressions were further reinforced by returning to the Chord cables. Music sounds more mushy with the Naim cables from top to bottom. There is a loss of definition with the notes as everything sounded softer. With the Chord, the treble soars and the tone of the piano has more energy and vitality. Piano sounds duller with the standard Naim cables.
The overall difference in presentation is from top to bottom, from the bass, midrange to the treble. 2 main differences between the standard Naim and Chord Signature TA as follows:-
1) The edges of notes are more defined and solid with the Chord, softer and mushier with the Naim.
2) More energy and vitality with the Chord, flatter/duller sound with standard Naim especially with piano
A note is I am using Harbeth Super HL5 Plus speakers, a loudspeaker which has been labeled as boring and dull by some. Folks who own brighter and more dynamic sounding speakers might find the standard Naim cables to work perfectly fine, and this was shown in the earlier thread (Part 1) which i posted last year.
For folks who want a more lit, dynamic or brighter sound at the extremes, you might want to look at the various alternatives, not only the Chord Signature TA. Folks who have brighter sounding speakers, the flatter or duller presentation of the standard Naim may be a better fit.
Looks like I need to stay with the Chord cables after all.
Andrew C!
Been around a while....
Hi
I did a similar process to yours a couple of weeks ago.
I do find it a little tricky to be totally objective when swapping cables out, due to the propensity of Naim amps needing time to warm up etc.
Anyway, the Witch Hat cables give a more rounded, and detailed presentation. Especially the replacement cable for XPS2 to 250.2. There is no perceived loss of rhythms or timing, either.
They remain in the system.
I did a similar process to yours a couple of weeks ago.
I do find it a little tricky to be totally objective when swapping cables out, due to the propensity of Naim amps needing time to warm up etc.
Anyway, the Witch Hat cables give a more rounded, and detailed presentation. Especially the replacement cable for XPS2 to 250.2. There is no perceived loss of rhythms or timing, either.
They remain in the system.
I swapped to (Flashback) power only cable from Hicap to 72 and cable from 72 to 250 and found both an improvement over the stock Naim cables. Yes cables really do sound different when you stop passing signals through power supplies (in going power only from Hicap to 72) and replacing unscreened mains cable with a proper screened interconnect (in replacing the 72 to 250 cable). I put this down to solid engineering principles in reducing the amount of noise interference on signals. I assume Naim did it to assist upgrade paths, going active etc but to me it seems clearly bonkers by modern standards. Or perhaps noise was less prevalent way back when ...
I just realised that the discussion of aftermarket cables that go between Naim's preamp, power amp and power supply is now prohibited on the Naim forum. My thread just got deleted by the moderator of the forum. Also, a post of recommending to look at replacing these cables got deleted as well. Discussion about these cables is allowed previously. Not too sure when did Naim implement or change the forum rules.
Thanks for the update. On Naim amps needing time to warm up, I think just a quick swap wouldn't affect the results too much considering that the sound changes almost immediately when the cables were swapped. In my case from Chord to Naim, and then back to Chord again.
Andrew C!
Been around a while....
Tbh I’m not surprised this happened.
MJS
Technical Tinkerer
Surprisingly there's an active Naim Audio Facebook group that I got invited into. We're allowed to talk about absolutely everything in there because Naim can't/don't moderate it. Paul Stephenson pops up form time to time, but so too do a few of us ex-Naimees doing special things to amps that people keep crowing about. Mods, upgrades and power supplies by other manufacturers are mentioned often.
Suffolk Tony
Aim low, achieve your goals, avoid disappointment.
Discussion about cables that carry power between Naim components have always been banned on their forum, it's not a new thing. As MJS mentions, there's a Naim Facebook group that's worth joining if you want the freedom to discuss mods etc.
per flemming
Registered User
They definately restricted free speech lately
Mention certain things - any objective critism - and post get pulled, deleted or delayed for moderation, nothing like the good old days
Along with alternative Snaic mentioning, I assume investors doesn't like the massive critique lately re. their new Uniti issues, reduced Q inspection, outsourcing of customerservice, silly priced Lumina cables, etc etc..
Restrict free speech isn't really possible on the internet, at least in the free part of the world, Mr Dane on impossible mission.