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Naim Solstice officially unveiled . . .

Mr Pig said:
I think there are a few reasons for it. Personally, I feel that the way Linn and Naim have marketed and promoted their products is borderline dishonest and certainly manipulative. I try to point this out to even up the playing field a bit. If people want to buy Naim, or any other brand, it's a free country and I don't care but I would at least like them to go in with their eyes open and understanding that there are cheaper alternatives.

Both Linn and Naim are targeting lifestyle buyers these days. Just like Rolex re-positioned itself in the marketplace using advertising and product placement, Linn and Naim want to be hi-end brands bought by the well heeled who value perceived quality and social status over actual performance. I care about the music and value so I don't respect that. I want people to have great sounding music and systems which are satisfying, not get suckered into a never ending cycle of dissatisfaction, frustration and expensive upgrading.

And you need to understand that the latter situation is exactly what Linn, Naim and their dealers want. They pretend otherwise but it's a lie. If you are genuinely satisfied with a product, you don't change it. Customer satisfaction is of no use to a Hi-Fi dealer.
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Translation: You bought into a brand you didn't like the sound of and all this crap is you trying to cover up for the fact that you didn't trust your ears. You may claim to want people to have great sounding music system, but only if it matches your definition of what that is. Newsflash - people will trust their ears to tell them whether they are happy with a system or not before buying it, they're not muppets unlike.... :D
 
Suffolk Tony said:
One thing's certain - just trying to market to the rapidly shrinking numbers of old hi-fi farts is a recipe for commercial disaster.
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What you are suggesting is that the pricing and product structure Naim have adopted is necessary to assure their survival? No other way they could have done it? Come on.

We don't appear to be short of Hi-Fi manufacturers and most of them do not charge Naim prices. Rega seem to be doing ok? UK manufacturer, sure they make more upmarket stuff than they used to but they ain't selling a £4,000 cable. Yip, Naim charge more for one cable than Rega charge for the best turntable they can make, with a ceramic platter, sophisticated off-board PSU and their best tonearm on it.

But Naim had to market a four thousand pound cable to survive?
 
Mr Pig said:
What you are suggesting is that the pricing and product structure Naim have adopted is necessary to assure their survival? No other way they could have done it? Come on.

But Naim had to market a four thousand pound cable to survive?
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Who knows? One thing's also certain - you sure don't. Is there room for yet another hi-fi separates company chasing the same market? Naim are surviving, making a profit, so why should they change their current marketing strategy? Do they sell a “four thousand pound” cable? If they do then it's profitable & they're not going to stop selling it because it somehow offends some anonymous bloke on a hi-fi forum, are they?
 
Suffolk Tony said:
Do they sell a “four thousand pound” cable?
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Yes, they do. That in itself should offer some insight into their pricing policy in general.

I'm not saying they should do things differently, it's up to them what they do. Or rather their French owners and shareholders. But by the same token I don't have to applaud it, it's up to me what I agree with. I'm free to give praise to Rega for making good value, innovative products with great customer support and I'm free to call out Naim for milking loyalty built by a company with very different objectives and philosophies.

People are free to buy £10,000 handbags, £250,000 watches, and they do because other people make such things. But we do not have to clap and say well done to them all.
 
Suffolk Tony said:
Who knows? One thing's also certain - you sure don't. Is there room for yet another hi-fi separates company chasing the same market? Naim are surviving, making a profit, so why should they change their current marketing strategy? Do they sell a “four thousand pound” cable? If they do then it's profitable & they're not going to stop selling it because it somehow offends some anonymous bloke on a hi-fi forum, are they?
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To be fair to Naim their £4,000 cable is at the budget end. When I was talking to the dealer about the Statement he explained that they still recommend a £13,000 Audioquest alternative.
 
Suffolk Tony said:
Who knows? One thing's also certain - you sure don't. Is there room for yet another hi-fi separates company chasing the same market? Naim are surviving, making a profit, so why should they change their current marketing strategy? Do they sell a “four thousand pound” cable? If they do then it's profitable & they're not going to stop selling it because it somehow offends some anonymous bloke on a hi-fi forum, are they?
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I've always wondered if its actually a re-branded Vertere cable with a bigger price tag along with "Naim Lumina" on.
 
I think expensive cables are a con but it’s a market not established by naim. Can’t blame them for having a go. At least their products do come with suitable cables to get you going.

I believe even the sainted Rega now offer some alternative cables, even a mains lead.

None of these audio behemoths are making massive profits btw. It does make me chuckle when people talk about Linn’s marketing power, forgetting about the likes of Sony & Philips who have changed the market several times.

It’s just old arguments in a perpetual cycle.
 
Del monaco said:
If I were serious trader, I wouldn’t be recommending £13,000 to anybody. Dear,dear.
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But people buy these things. That's just reality.

Years ago I knew a dealer who sold crazy expensive round-earth kit. Not my cup of tea but anyway, most of their sales were over the phone! People didn't even come to the shop to hear stuff, it was recommended and they just...bought it.

It's a different world. A different mentality.
 
You get people who listen to dealers and people who listen to gear. I’ve listened to so many things that just didn’t do what the dealer said they did. In fact, I remember an associate from a well known trader stropping off because my FIL said the £20,000 streamer he was trying to sell him was clunky and sounded no better than his own custom made streamer. I found it very enlightening. How could an everyday customer know better than a trader?
 
Mr Pig said:
Shareholders just out to make money?
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Here is the thing. Naim (and its parent company) is a business. They exist to make money and return a profit to their owners / shareholders. Of course, those very owners would like the business to be sustainable and grow over time, so their investment can provide a regular dividend and appreciating value.

If they can do so selling cables for 4,000 squids, then more power to them. You don't have to buy from them.
 
James said:
Here is the thing. Naim (and its parent company) is a business. They exist to make money and return a profit to their owners / shareholders. Of course, those very owners would like the business to be sustainable and grow over time, so their investment can provide a regular dividend and appreciating value.
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Thank you for the economics lesson.

I'm not arguing about any of that. People in business want to make money, super. This is true of any business, yes? You could apply the same description to pimps or drug dealers. Point being that the desire to make money doesn't justify how you do it and if it involves taking advantage of people in some way, I'm out.
 
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