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Naim SBL

yes now my replacement drivers have arrived just need to find time to fit them, knock up some grilles and then see about getting them in place and set up still to cut gaskets and plates to size.
 
Great thread guys. Enjoying reading all your comments. I was following the SBL topic as I got my SBL a few months ago after last hearing them in the late 90's during my first steps in the real hifi world. Never looked at ATC so grateful for the expert views by Birdseed. Fascinating insight and possibility of greater performance over SBL. I don't know if I get to that level. I can only read, wait or dream...

Manket,

Very kind of you! One of the joys and frustrations of hi-fi as a hobby is that it can take many many years to achieve the steps on the ladder towards ones ultimate dream system. Often one's ultimate system is influenced by a magazine review or a hi-fi show experience from years and years before. As an example I read about SME's IV and V arms in HFN as an 18 year old in 1987. At that age I had absolutely no hope of ever affording one and at that point had never even seen one in the metal let alone heard it!! I even appled to SME for a job after University!! Over the years my passion for owning an SME IV to put on my Gyrodec never left me, I even discussed it with John Michell a couple of times at the Bristol show, but at least by then I had actually heard them! I 'made do' with the really rather good Rega RB600 from 1999 until Jan 2020 when the news that SME were to stop selling their arms without their decks finally pushed me into action!! By then I had collected all the SME brochures, reviews and features and probably knew as much about the arm as a keen owner!!

As a result of this 33 year quest it was an incredibly enjoyable experience to finally purchase my own SME IV, to savour the superb installation manual and the gloriously evocative packaging. I spent a deliciously relaxing evening carefully installing it on my Gyro, admiring the utterly incredible quality of machining and staggering beauty of the design. I had of course given thought to what I would play as a first album (Del Amitri's 'Waking Hours') to christen it!! That was quite a late night of listening - I can tell you!!

I suppose what I am trying to say is that I wouldn't have had that same experience if I had just had the spare cash to splash on one immediately. The longing and waiting and anticipation was all part of it and added to it!! If you are in no position to move forward on a speaker upgrade right now there's no harm in going for a listen now and deciding if ATC's are your dream speaker. If they are then enjoy the journey towards them, if you want them enough you will eventually achieve your aims - and the experience will be all the richer for it!! I reviewed my first set of ATC's back around 2000 (SCM20's) and instantly fell in love! Again I spent two decades dreaming of finally owning a set of their speakers and knew that the SCM40 were my choice because they are the lowest model in the range with that extraordinary and famed midrange driver. Those were a 50th birthday present to myself in 2019 and actually in the end I just slapped them on a 24 month 0% credit card!! I'm nearly 52 now and hope to retire before 60 so the big push over the past couple of years was based on the fact that there was a level I wanted to get to in my lifetime and I needed to get there before retirement!! If you are going to buy something and take a loan for it over say 5 years then those need to be working years! I had also intended to ultimately get to a NAC52 supercap after reading Malcolm Steward's extraordinary review in Audiophile around 1989, but having managed to obtain a mint condition late NAC82 (which is reputedly very close) I will probably just stop at the 82 level. I had the privilege of reviewing the NAC552 for HFN many years ago, I lived with it for 3 months and utterly adored it (well apart from the aesthetics), but it was so far beyond my pay grade that I knew there was no point putting that on any 'dream amp' list!!

The message, if there is one, is that the journey isn't as fun as the destination - but with enough enthusiasm it can be enjoyable. The toys we coveted in our formative years do eventually become affordable enough to acquire - eventually if you're a patient man!

Here's hoping everybody's hi-fi aspirations are realised...

Birdseed
 
Well for me the SBLs were like that heard them as a kid no way I could ever afford them or the collection of olive boxes feeding them. Combination of values plummeting over time has allowed me to get well used SBLs very cheap and slowly fix them up. Like wise the many olive boxes are slowly building up as their values bring them into my reach now.
So I fully get your point I just set my goals lower
 
Well for me the SBLs were like that heard them as a kid no way I could ever afford them or the collection of olive boxes feeding them. Combination of values plummeting over time has allowed me to get well used SBLs very cheap and slowly fix them up. Like wise the many olive boxes are slowly building up as their values bring them into my reach now.
So I fully get your point I just set my goals lower

Enjoy them - the SBL's are fantastic speakers! The olive range of naim stuff is also as you say astonishing value nowadays and like you I have stayed with it!

Birdseed
 
Hi

Personally I love my SBL's and do not find them harsh or bright, and that is without covers on. I do have them well positioned against solid brick walls though. They are driven my a HiCap NAC92/Nap 90 combination. I also like the look of them!

I also have another very early pair (ash black) and will be commissioning them soon. These will be against brick also, but I am going to experiment with driving them actively with some slightly off the wall equipment.

I read somewhere that with older speakers it can be worth turning the woofers through 180 deg to counteract the years of gravity and re-centre the voice coils. That makes a certain amount of sense to me.

Thanks

Berni
 
Bringing this old thread back...

Checking out a pair of SBLs...possible replacements to my RS3's (so different!).

I am having a hard time settling with these - they seem more demanding, particular, at times not gelling. But then there are moments of accuracy that are really compelling...detail, more "hifi".

These are not in front of the requisite brick wall however - in front of a glass view wall.

Does this mean I'll never get the best out of them? Is the brick wall urban legend or ??

Are ATCs just a more modern version that also comes together better, more flexible with setting?
 
Does this mean I'll never get the best out of them? Is the brick wall urban legend or ??

Mine are not ideally situated but sound great. Concerning SBLs the first question I'd ask is, are they properly set up? It is quite a faff doing it as recommended and not transporting them assembled etc, but I've always gone by the book.

Tim

PS some of the worst-sounding SBLs I've heard were at a dealer where they were obviously NOT well looked after
 
Make sure they are right up against, people that have not had SBLs don't always realise, i.e. the cross over should be like less than a cm from the back.

Make sure they are set up, gently push in the woofer evenly and let go, it should come out slowly, if it jumps straight out then they are not set up.
 
Make sure they are set up, gently push in the woofer evenly and let go, it should come out slowly, if it jumps straight out then they are not set up.

Make sure you use a thick rimmed glass to push cone in, not fingers, as this distributes the pressure evenly on the cone helping to avoid any accidental damage.
 
I would also add, I recently replaced the tweeters in my NBLs for new ones, and the difference, was frankly astounding. All these people pissing around with ethernet switches lol.

If you got them for a song, if you can source a pair of tweeters could be worth while, I got mine from willys hifi. I tell you though getting them out of an SBL is a total bitch.
 
Make sure they are right up against, people that have not had SBLs don't always realise, i.e. the cross over should be like less than a cm from the back.

Make sure they are set up, gently push in the woofer evenly and let go, it should come out slowly, if it jumps straight out then they are not set up.
I have to say I go against this rule. Partially because of plasterboard walls but mainly as I prefer them angled in slightly & away from the wall around 4 to 5 inches.
 
Very helpful, thanks for the feedback.

How would folks here compare them to the ATC SCM 19s? I have my own sense but would like to hear others.
 
I have to say I go against this rule. Partially because of plasterboard walls but mainly as I prefer them angled in slightly & away from the wall around 4 to 5 inches.

I am not against a bit of toe in myself, my NBLs certainly are. But probably best to start at the beginning.
 
Very helpful, thanks for the feedback.

How would folks here compare them to the ATC SCM 19s? I have my own sense but would like to hear others.
I went from SBLs to active ATC40S. Presentation is different, better midrange & bass (as you would expect). ATCs don’t need loads of space behind so they should fit perfectly in most rooms.
 
Make sure they are set up, gently push in the woofer evenly and let go, it should come out slowly, if it jumps straight out then they are not set up.

I have heard this many times; maybe it is a valid test but there are several things I am not sure about.

First, Naim was obviously concerned about the coupling between the middle and lower boxes and I don't see how this can test that. What I mean is: if you press too hard and the spikes sink deep through the pads and into the wood the coupling is too rigid, I presume. There was always the question about whether the spikes should pierce the pads at all and I recall that Naim itself was inconsistent on this point. I think the issue with transporting the SBLs assembled is more as much to do with interfering with the exact tightness of the coupling, as with the risk of breaking the airtight seal.

Second, the seal is obviously important too. However, if the seal is perfect would that not make the drivers pop back quickly rather than slowly, under pressure from the compression of air caused by the seal? Slow in and out implies to me a slightly imperfect seal, ie. air is gradually being squeezed out and gradually sucked back in. Maybe this imperfect seal is correct?

It would be interesting if someone would conduct listening tests on SBLs in various states of misconfiguration to explore the impact of these setup issues.

Regardless, I'm pretty sure that many or most SBLs that have been knocked about a bit and transported assembled do not sound as they should.

Tim
 
I have heard this many times; maybe it is a valid test but there are several things I am not sure about.

First, Naim was obviously concerned about the coupling between the middle and lower boxes and I don't see how this can test that. What I mean is: if you press too hard and the spikes sink deep through the pads and into the wood the coupling is too rigid, I presume. There was always the question about whether the spikes should pierce the pads at all and I recall that Naim itself was inconsistent on this point. I think the issue with transporting the SBLs assembled is more as much to do with interfering with the exact tightness of the coupling, as with the risk of breaking the airtight seal.

Second, the seal is obviously important too. However, if the seal is perfect would that not make the drivers pop back quickly rather than slowly, under pressure from the compression of air caused by the seal? Slow in and out implies to me a slightly imperfect seal, ie. air is gradually being squeezed out and gradually sucked back in. Maybe this imperfect seal is correct?

It would be interesting if someone would conduct listening tests on SBLs in various states of misconfiguration to explore the impact of these setup issues.

Regardless, I'm pretty sure that many or most SBLs that have been knocked about a bit and transported assembled do not sound as they should.

Tim

The woofer test is correct - it should come back out slowly, not quickly. The seal between the boxes needs to be intact, but it is not the only place that air can get through. Bottom line, don't think too much, just do the test as described.

On decoupling, it's not necessarily as straight forward, as sometimes you'll see people saying that the boxes should be decoupled as far as possible, while at other times it'll be maintained that a good amount of pressure should be applied to the middle box when setting up, seemingly contradicting the decoupling thing.

So I went back and tried to find what JV himself had to say on the matter, and came across the following:


The important issue is to ensure that the mid box does not rock, if the pads are pierced a little bit this will not affect the performance.

If all the pads are fully pierced on first assembly, it is likely that they will need fixing next time the SBLs are assembled.



julian vereker said:
I have found that with some care 5 or 6 moves are possible without any remedial action to the pads.



julian vereker said:
There is some misunderstanding here . . . the bass box should be pressed onto the spikes such that the box does not rock, end of story. - The aluminium pads were an afterthought solely to make the setup easier and more repeatable.

The connection between the bass box and the spikes is part of the design - it is not one of isolation, but defined contact.



julian vereker said:
When the speaker is first assembled, the woofer box is pressed onto the spikes to make indentations in the aluminium pads to make it easier to locate the woofer box after the silicone has been applied. The woofer box is then pressed down firmly after the silicone has been applied to ensure that any excess is spread out and is not pushing the woofer box up.

After the assembly has been done a number of times, the holes may become enlarged in the spike protectors which in itself doesn’t matter as long as the seal is remade, but it is important to check that the foam gasket does not touch the underside of the woofer box when it is placed on the spikes (i.e. there must be a gap for the silicone).

If you have any doubts, read the manual or check with your dealer.

This is a very important part of the correct operation of the SBL, and if the woofer box is not firmly on the spikes, the sound quality IS SERIOUSLY degraded.
 
Bottom line, don't think too much, just do the test as described.

I think a lot :)

On decoupling, it's not necessarily as straight forward, as sometimes you'll see people saying that the boxes should be decoupled as far as possible, while at other times it'll be maintained that a good amount of pressure should be applied to the middle box when setting up, seemingly contradicting the decoupling thing.

Thanks for the fascinating quotes from JV. I presume it is possible to over-couple the boxes as otherwise they would not have this somewhat fragile design. I would be more dismissive of the concepts if the speakers did not sound so good :)

Tim
 
I would also add, I recently replaced the tweeters in my NBLs for new ones, and the difference, was frankly astounding. All these people pissing around with ethernet switches lol.

If you got them for a song, if you can source a pair of tweeters could be worth while, I got mine from willys hifi. I tell you though getting them out of an SBL is a total bitch.

Good call on the Scanspeak units, thanks for the info, I've ordered a contingency pair for the DBLs while they'e still available
 


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