say it as it is
pfm Member
cool will look into it the bodger in me was thinking about 10mm foam and doubling the thickness around the perimeter eg 20mm, glue them together to in effect give the cut out section
Naim SBL
- Thread starter FC united
- Start date
cool will look into it the bodger in me was thinking about 10mm foam and doubling the thickness around the perimeter eg 20mm, glue them together to in effect give the cut out section
say it as it is
pfm Member
in saying that a simple lightweight wooden frame with acoustic cloth could also be an option for SBls? bit more fiddly as 4 grilles needed and trying to get suitable velcro to attach to the speakers
Birdseed007
Audio scribe
I ran SBL's with NAC82/NAP250 for around 20 years in two different houses and found they sounded fantastic with well recorded stuff but I never really connected with them on average recordings or with poorly recorded material and found them harsh and lacking in bass. They just weren't really a full bandwidth loudspeaker and mine were certainly perfectly set up. They're a lovely design in room though and certainly offered lots of detail and a sense of transparency on nice female vocals, strummed guitars etc.
I changed to passive ATC SCM40's last year and they are genuinely staggering. Even more detail and clarity, massively more bass power, equally good timing as SBL's and a far better midrange. Everything I played on the ATC's sounded better and not by a small amount either - the single biggest upgrade in Hi-Fi I have ever made by a massive massive margin - the presentation of music feels more like DBL's than SBL's!! I'm not prone to huge overstatement of upgrades but in truth NAC102-NAC82 or Naim phono boards to Trichord DINO NC phono stage or Logitech Squeezebox to Naim NDX were trifling incremental improvements compared to the difference the ATC's made! I'm still putting records on 14 months later and being astonished by what I am hearing!
Birdseed
I changed to passive ATC SCM40's last year and they are genuinely staggering. Even more detail and clarity, massively more bass power, equally good timing as SBL's and a far better midrange. Everything I played on the ATC's sounded better and not by a small amount either - the single biggest upgrade in Hi-Fi I have ever made by a massive massive margin - the presentation of music feels more like DBL's than SBL's!! I'm not prone to huge overstatement of upgrades but in truth NAC102-NAC82 or Naim phono boards to Trichord DINO NC phono stage or Logitech Squeezebox to Naim NDX were trifling incremental improvements compared to the difference the ATC's made! I'm still putting records on 14 months later and being astonished by what I am hearing!
Birdseed
Faux
pfm Member
Do these need space or are they happy in any position? My biggest limiting factor is that I need speakers which tuck between my chimney breasts and rack/storage and don't protrude into the room (pictures earlier in post). The SBLs do this pretty well and everything else I have tried becomes bloated and loses imaging. I have given up having loan speakers from my dealer
Much to their delight.onlyconnect
pfm Member
say it as it is
pfm Member
they do look the part might end up with a set see how my diy goes haha
say it as it is
pfm Member
Cool seen them on eBay works out about £70 with postage hence why I fancy a go at making something either in foam or a lightweight MDF frame with cloth
Sorry to jump in but I have ATC40S (active) either side of a chimney breast; they replaced SBLs.Do these need space or are they happy in any position? My biggest limiting factor is that I need speakers which tuck between my chimney breasts and rack/storage and don't protrude into the room (pictures earlier in post). The SBLs do this pretty well and everything else I have tried becomes bloated and loses imaging. I have given up having loan speakers from my dealer
I have them around 20cms or so from the front wall & they are great. They do kick out a lot more bass than SBLs but it is very controlled & not bloated.
I do sometimes get a little resonance on some reggae tracks but that is down to my room probably.
They are the best speakers I’ve ever heard, really wonderful on vocals.
Personally I would go active (well I did) but appreciate it stretches the budget.
The funny thing about the SBL is it always ends up being talked about in the same company as the ATCs, Dutch and Dutch etc. Let's remember the SBL is a 30 year old plus design and can be had for a few hundred quid these days. If you like the Naim sound and can get them set up properly the bang for your buck is hard to match, but do not expect them to do what a newer speaker costing £4K in passive mode and £7K in active mode can do. Woodface had a very nice set of SBLs and went to ATCs, but I think he went from passive to active. SBLs driven actively can produce some very nice results, I once heard a 'cheap' active system using SBLs with a 72 and 2 140s... it had a sound way above the cost of the components.
That said they are a bit fiddly to set up and now Allaes are at rock bottom prices there is an argument to look at the more simplistic and easier to live with speaker, but perceived wisdom is the SBLs are better speakers. Personally I think the Allaes are Naim's best kept speaker secret, but maybe that's just me. My current set cost me £360 and are immaculate, they are currently being driven vvy Teddy Pardo amps and a CD5X and that makes a very nice sound, well for us Naimees at any rate
That said they are a bit fiddly to set up and now Allaes are at rock bottom prices there is an argument to look at the more simplistic and easier to live with speaker, but perceived wisdom is the SBLs are better speakers. Personally I think the Allaes are Naim's best kept speaker secret, but maybe that's just me. My current set cost me £360 and are immaculate, they are currently being driven vvy Teddy Pardo amps and a CD5X and that makes a very nice sound, well for us Naimees at any rate
Correct summation. SBLs were £2.5k at the last RRP, I bought one of the last pairs but speaker design has moved on.The funny thing about the SBL is it always ends up being talked about in the same company as the ATCs, Dutch and Dutch etc. Let's remember the SBL is a 30 year old plus design and can be had for a few hundred quid these days. If you like the Naim sound and can get them set up properly the bang for your buck is hard to match, but do not expect them to do what a newer speaker costing £4K in passive mode and £7K in active mode can do. Woodface had a very nice set of SBLs and went to ATCs, but I think he went from passive to active. SBLs driven actively can produce some very nice results, I once heard a 'cheap' active system using SBLs with a 72 and 2 140s... it had a sound way above the cost of the components.
That said they are a bit fiddly to set up and now Allaes are at rock bottom prices there is an argument to look at the more simplistic and easier to live with speaker, but perceived wisdom is the SBLs are better speakers. Personally I think the Allaes are Naim's best kept speaker secret, but maybe that's just me. My current set cost me £360 and are immaculate, they are currently being driven vvy Teddy Pardo amps and a CD5X and that makes a very nice sound, well for us Naimees at any rate
I mad the big leap as I had a little windfall & wanted to invest it in a serious set of speakers.
I'm a bit of an SBL/SL2 novice but aren't they a rather unique design that perhaps has not necessarily been bettered in all respects, but manufacturers have found simpler solutions, both for themselves and the customer to transport and setup? I was amazed how complex they are when my dealer talked me through their design. In many ways, I think they hold up surprisingly well to modern sub £15k speakers - not that I've heard a huge variety.
I don't disagree, they are a clever design which makes the most of relatively 'cheap' drivers/tweeters whereas ATC invest heavily in this area but perhaps less so in the amplification? SBLs do bass, you really notice it when present in the recording but they lack a little weight in their presentation?
Anyway, I had mine for about 19 years & never really hankered after other options until my current speakers arrived.
Birdseed007
Audio scribe
Do these need space or are they happy in any position? My biggest limiting factor is that I need speakers which tuck between my chimney breasts and rack/storage and don't protrude into the room (pictures earlier in post). The SBLs do this pretty well and everything else I have tried becomes bloated and loses imaging. I have given up having loan speakers from my dealer
Faux,
The ATC SCM40's are not a backs to the wall design like the SBL, however they are not ported either and have very tight and tuneful bass so are quite easy to accomodate. Mine are toed in about 20 degrees and I would say the nearest corner to the wall is around 15cm with the furthest corner around 20cm. They're a little deeper than SBL's but overall have a similar footprint.
As for the active v passive versions I will confess that I never auditioned the actives as they were quite simply out of my budget and in any case I have known and loved naim amps for 32 years and taken a long time to get to something as capable as 82/250 and didn't feel like binning that sound! I also review for HFN sometimes so actives would have made it much more difficult to accomodate review gear. The general concensus seems to be that the actives are better, although I did bump into a dealer recently who said he much preferred passives driven by good amps such as naim and there were one or two members of the naim forum who had done the audition and preferred passives too. One day I will have to get a pair of actives from ATC and put them up against mine!
All I can say is that over the years I have heard and auditioned a lot of speakers both in my own system and others. I have never heard anything that comes close to ATC's in terms of accuracy, timing, tonality and presentation at this sort of price, they are quite simply astonishing - at least to these ears. They are everything I ever wanted from a speaker and have impressed me more than some far more expensive and esoteric designs. After 14 months I haven't 'got used to them', they still astonish me regularly! A number of good friends who are either professional musicians (such as a concert pianist) and other hi-fi mates have been equally astonished by the performance of my system now.
Birdseed
And that says it all about SBLs really, if you like them it will take something really outstanding to move them on.
Faux
pfm Member
Thank you for the detail, it is really helpful and has given me the nudge to try these in position.
lagavullin10y
pfm Member
Indeed. Many people seem to keep the SBLs for about twenty years. I got mine from a friendly German. He had them for sale for a year and I was the first one who asked him if I could have a listen.
I will likely use them twenty years too, have not heard better speakers for a feasible price.
allaes are nice too indeed, they work good in different rooms e.g firing in the length of a room, or without the brickwall which is needed for the SBLs.
puddlesplasher
pfm Member
My first pair went to Canada and back again. Sounds like a good title for a book..
Manket
Forever a Naim Man
Great thread guys. Enjoying reading all your comments. I was following the SBL topic as I got my SBL a few months ago after last hearing them in the late 90's during my first steps in the real hifi world. Never looked at ATC so grateful for the expert views by Birdseed. Fascinating insight and possibility of greater performance over SBL. I don't know if I get to that level. I can only read, wait or dream...