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Naim 72 to 52, any down side?

bob atherton

bob atherton

pfm Member
One of the best systems that I have ever heard was at a hi-fi show. It was Naim CDS2, XPS, 52, S/Cap, 500 (all above on Hutter) and DBL’s. It was communicating, involving, sonically glorious and plenty of PRAT. If I had the money and space and WAF the cheque book would have come out and I would have bought the bloody lot.

Back to reality…. This was about 11 years ago and I guess in a way I’m still working towards this goal, though the goalposts have moved a bit along the way. I bought the Hutter and it was one of the best hi-fi choices that I have ever made. My front end is a Roksan DP1 CD transport and TeddyDAC. I prefer this to the CDS2 , XPS, so job done there. My pre is 72 , TeddycapIII. I think Teddy is or will be doing a PS that will work with a 52 so I think that should be my next point of focus.

As I use an LP12 I want to get an earlier 52 with built in phono stage. I wondered if these will work with a S/cap or the new offering from Teddy, or if it has to have the 52PS?

I use an Avondale S100 power amp, OK it’s not a 500, but I prefer it to 135’s that I used to own.

The DBL’s will sadly never happen but my IBL’s are a bit like the big ones after a boil wash!

I would love to know if there might be any down side by getting a 52 to replace my 72? Any first hand experience would be very welcome indeed.
Thanks, Bob
 
The thing about big Naim systems is that on one hand they are gloriously involving, big, fast, etc, as you say. But on the other, and as someone who used to live with one, they start to sound a bit contrived in some ways. It seems as if there's so much being done to the signal that it loses some sparkle and sounds as if someone has set out to make anything you play sound a certain way.

72 to 52 is a pretty big jump and you'll certainly get more of everything - especially about another octave or two in the bass. (I wish I'd never bothered with the 82 in between). While the 52 phono cards have/had a very good rep, in my experience they're bettered by a reasonable outboad stage like a P75.
 
Unless you really need remote control and lots of inputs I wouldn't bother with a 52. The 523 phono cards are very similar to the 323 (I still have a set of each left). To get better performance an external phono stage is better vfm.

Cheers,

DV
 
Only down side is the extra cost.

For phono, and assuming you stick with Naim, you should look out for a used Prefix which can be powered by the 52.

Whether you can do better investing that much with a different brand is a whole other question.


Cheers
Jason
 
Tim Jones said:
...It seems as if there's so much being done to the signal that it loses some sparkle and sounds as if someone has set out to make anything you play sound a certain way....

.
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I agree with that Tim. This is why I now use a TeddycapIII and not Hicap. I also had a Naim XPS that I sold and bought the TeddyXPS. No regrets at all. I also hope to be able to use a 52 with a Teddy PS. I've also lashed the system together with AR Sound cables. Again, this is a possitive step away from 100% Naim. The best of both worlds, if you like. All this IMHO.
 
Darth Vader said:
Unless you really need remote control and lots of inputs I wouldn't bother with a 52. The 523 phono cards are very similar to the 323 (I still have a set of each left). To get better performance an external phono stage is better vfm.

Cheers,

DV
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DV, this would be OK with the LP12 but wouldn't change the CD sound. FWIW when I used to sell Naim back in the 80's I remember very well the first 52 and 52PS coming in to us. We hooked up to an LP12 and were completely blown away. Such insight, more solid, more natural and loads less surface noise. from that day I was sold on one.

Strangley I have never quite felt the same about all the other flagship Naim pre-amps that have followed.
 
bob atherton said:
One of the best systems that I have ever heard was at a hi-fi show. It was Naim CDS2, XPS, 52, S/Cap, 500 (all above on Hutter) and DBL’s. It was communicating, involving, sonically glorious and plenty of PRAT. If I had the money and space and WAF the cheque book would have come out and I would have bought the bloody lot.
Click to expand...

Don't take this the wrong way but that is the system you should get. No amount of substitutes will get you there.

Alternatively, you can build a system around other kit but you would need to audition it all together as a whole to make sure it sounds right.
 
Didn't you used to use a valve amp with a Naim CDP, Bob? That always struck me as an interesting idea.

Hutter really works well under Naim btw, especially as a Mana antidote. I may drop my search for a HiCap and get a Teddy at this rate.
 
Hey Bob ,
I think you've said it yourself.
"One of the best systems that I have ever heard was at a hi-fi show. It was Naim CDS2, XPS, 52, etc."
If you like that sound , then getting a 52 is the way to go.
I compared a 72 to an 82. The 72 to me sounds tinny and shut in compared to the 82.
The 52 compared to the 82 for me is more transparent.
Why do you want an earlier 52?
If you want an outboard phono , just get a prefix to suit your cartridge , and use the 52's supercap to power it.
You'll get more bass from your IBL's.
As Jason said , only down side is cost.

Brendan
 
positive_energy said:
Don't take this the wrong way but that is the system you should get. No amount of substitutes will get you there.

Alternatively, you can build a system around other kit but you would need to audition it all together as a whole to make sure it sounds right.
Click to expand...

As I said, the goal posts have moved a bit since I heard this system. I prefer my Roksan DP1, TeddyDAC to the Naim CDP. I could go to 82 first I guess. As an impoverished photographer I can only take small steps..!

I'm also not liking the 'BIG NAIM SOUND' as much as I did 11 years ago. My tastes have changed a touch. I have found that I prefer my system to all Naim ones. I still get to hear all Naim systems and never have I felt that I would wish to go back to 100% Naim.
 
I've just changed to a recently Naim-serviced 52+PS from a 72 which I used with, variously, Hicap, Avondaled Hicap, TPX1, Teddycap, plus Naim, Avondale and NJ cards in all sorts of combinations. I also dallied with 82's (twice :rolleyes:), both with Dual Teddycap and with one and two Hicaps.

Although they made some very nice sounds, none compared in any way closely with the 52+PS, to my ears. I should have taken the plunge years ago but the journey has been fun anyway :).

The only downside, apart from cost, is the stupid grin which won't go away any time I play my system now :D.
 
I've had 12s, 32.5, 82, 52 and 552 but the only one I kept was a 72/hicap. If you can find a good one (and Naim pre-amps vary greatly in my experience) they have a quality which the bigger, later pres lost, in my opinion.

The 82 is a dog - must have had a bad one, I guess.

All suffer from bandwidth limiting and the old phono stages, whether internal cards or in a separate box, are outclassed now.
 
Look at drop-in mods to the 72 over in the DIY room. Since the 72 uses cards, you can do things which are easily reversible if you wish. Very simple tweaks can take these modular preamps a very long way. Low risk, low cost, tune to taste :)
 
martin clark said:
Look at drop-in mods to the 72 over in the DIY room. Since the 72 uses cards, you can do things which are easily reversible if you wish. Very simple tweaks can take these modular preamps a very long way. Low risk, low cost, tune to taste :)
Click to expand...

I've got the 72 pretty stripped down to just gain boards and a pair of phono boards plus that single board for soft start or whatever.

I've tried gain boards from Niel and from Les and prefered the stock Naim ones. I then got Naim to service these and after about 100 hrs of burning back in are a nice improvement.

I guess if the phono boards were outboard in a seperate stage that would help the 72 even more...?
 
This sounds like something I should do, Bob do you have a pic of the 72 with it's kit off so I can have a look at how your's it set up.

Where did it benefit from the Naim service, did you send Naim just the boards? Was it pricey?
 
Gaius said:
This sounds like something I should do, Bob do you have a pic of the 72 with it's kit off so I can have a look at how your's it set up.

Where did it benefit from the Naim service, did you send Naim just the boards? Was it pricey?
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I ran my 72 pretty much stripped to soft start and gain boards with just link wires - much better. Although I preferred the Avondale 821A boards to the NJ and Naim originals...

But maybe I don't really qualify since I have recently defected to a tube preamp modded by Living Voice ! Still running an Avondale power amp though.
 
Gaius said:
This sounds like something I should do, Bob do you have a pic of the 72 with it's kit off so I can have a look at how your's it set up.

Where did it benefit from the Naim service, did you send Naim just the boards? Was it pricey?
Click to expand...

Gaius, I don't have any pics with it's kit off, as you put it...:D

I think there have been quite a few threads about 72 board stripping over the years so maybe a search will help.

I had all four input boards, the gain and the time aligned boards, recapped at Salisbury, I just sent the boards. I think it was just over £100, but cann't quite remember.

It maybe wasn't the best VFM thing that I have ever done with the system but it did sharpen things up a bit, in a good way. At the time (about a year ago) I thought the 72 was here to stay, as it might well be yet. I thought I would just do what I could to get every once out of the pre amp.

I was very surprised how both the boards from NJ & Les changed the presentation a huge amount. I don't know why but from what I read here I felt that there might be a subtle change from both sets of boards; but for me they both changed the system away from my comfort zone.
 
Hello Bob
Over 12 months ago I remember you advising me on Naim preamps. I had just switched from my 42.5 to my 72 because of the extra inputs available. I never liked the thinness of the 72 and much preferred the 42.5.
I tried various options of Les's and Neils boards and board removing options but the only thing what made it really better was the Teddy psu.
Unfortunately the madness of upgraditis had gotten hold and I ended up with a 52/Supercap which was and is very satisfying. But as I said the madness has taken hold and after a CB NAP250 which lifted it yet again I am now on a pair of 135's. And so it goes on ------
 
Downsides:

More cost/investment
More shelving real-estate

Upsides:

More music
More convenience

Seriously, if you have the means and space, the NAC52/Super is simply sublime compared to the NAC72.

James
 
bob atherton said:
Gaius, I don't have any pics with it's kit off, as you put it...:D

I had all four input boards, the gain and the time aligned boards, recapped at Salisbury, I just sent the boards. I think it was just over £100, but cann't quite remember.

I was very surprised how both the boards from NJ & Les changed the presentation a huge amount. I don't know why but from what I read here I felt that there might be a subtle change from both sets of boards; but for me they both changed the system away from my comfort zone.
Click to expand...

I'm not and £100ish sounds like a fair deal, something I need to get around to.
 
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