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My best bet with SME 10 turntable: SME V or SME 312S?

Rosewind

Rosewind

Lost in Translation
I will receive a s/h SME 10 soon and am wondering whether to let it be shipped with the SME V arm that it was sold with, or have the seller swap it our for a 12" SME 312S + 12" arm board?

I have an itch to scratch when it comes to 12" arms so perhaps it is better to take the jump now rather than later if it can be done for roughly the same amount of money.
 
Yes. That was what I planned to do, but then the doubt set in because I read about the benefits of 12" arms.
 
"1984". Yes. Schrödinger's tonearm. Yes. Kierkegaard, "Whether you get the SME 10 with the SME V arm or without the SME V, you will regret both." Yes.
Lots of wisdom, still I am none the wiser.
 
no one can make you wiser. Experience makes you wiser. Buy it as it is. Try it. If you hate it, change it. Unless you're 80, you have time.
 
Iirc, 12" arms were originally made for 16" pre-mixed off-tape transcription acetates used by radio broadcasting stations to allow longer interludes between announcer statements. They had no other purpose. Yes, it has been said (proven? ) that tracing errors are reduced by the longer arm, but I am not sure that the case is fully closed in that regard - longer arms are wobblier (less stiff) than shorter arms and the purpose of the arm is to support the cartridge as well as possible. Swings vs. roundabouts.
 
Michael J said:
Iirc, 12" arms were originally made for 16" pre-mixed off-tape transcription acetates used by radio broadcasting stations to allow longer interludes between announcer statements. They had no other purpose. Yes, it has been said (proven? ) that tracing errors are reduced by the longer arm, but I am not sure that the case is fully closed in that regard - longer arms are wobblier (less stiff) than shorter arms and the purpose of the arm is to support the cartridge as well as possible. Swings vs. roundabouts.
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MJ ... for the first time I find myself saluting you’re attention to detail (which Id previously dismissed as pedantry). I just learned something of value
 
I’ve owned the SME 10 twice, first time I put a new V on it, second time I used a 312S with the 12” adaptor. Wish I could remember the difference clearly but with everything else in the two systems being different, it probably wouldn’t help you out. Aesthetically, the 10 looks best with a V, IMO.
 
Pedantry is nothing more than someone who does know something attempting to promulgate a point to some one who does not. It is not always appreciated. You're mileage may vary. ;) Happy New Year and Burns' Night to all North of the Wall. I will be wearing my family tartan. :)
 
For a minute there I thought I was thrown back into "Game of Thrones"! (Scotland is always welcome to join Scandinavia, you know.)

Cheers for all the extra info in this thread! I only ever seriously used 2 tonearms (excluding the one on the Empire 698 and an unused SME 3009R that I got in a swap): a Morch UP-4 (9") and Thorens TD16 mk. iii (9"). So it is clearly an area that I haven't given much attention until very recently. I do know that I liked the UP-4 a lot and may want to try a Morch tonearm again, perhaps in a 12" version? I am going to have a listen to the SME V on the SME 10 before I sell the SME V on. It would be nice to be able to hear what "grey" or neutral sounds like.

I think that my UP-4 was a lively thing and did a lot of good with my Denon 103R. Still, I never got the Benz Micro Gullwing SLR to sound as satisfying with whatever I combined it with. I think my SUT loaded it wrongly, so I have a bit of testing to do before I change the V for something else, be it a Morch, SME or NA Ace Anna.
 
The only time I heard a 12” SME was side by side with a 9”. I didn’t think there was much difference, but the shorter arm might have sounded marginally better (tighter, bit more dynamic).
 
Is it a certainty that a 12" arm fits on an SME 10 turntable? I'd be concerned that the armboard is long enough.
 
I have only heard that it is possible. Nick at Emporium Hifi said he knew of an armboard that would fit.
 
I would go for the 312s on the 10 any day, I have listened to both arm and it gives a sense of body and scale to the Sme 10. The series V can sound rather dry and boring in comparison. I only know of one dealer who has offered this combination, if given the choice I would without hesitation go for it you will not be disappointed. What I would be more concerned about would be the sample of the 312s or series V as I have heard a lot of sample variation.
 
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Michael J said:
Pedantry is nothing more than someone who does know something attempting to promulgate a point to some one who does not. It is not always appreciated. You're mileage may vary. ;) Happy New Year and Burns' Night to all North of the Wall. I will be wearing my family tartan. :)
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Antoninus Pius or Hadrian?
 
Michael J said:
Yes, it has been said (proven? ) that tracing errors are reduced by the longer arm, but I am not sure that the case is fully closed in that regard - longer arms are wobblier (less stiff) than shorter arms and the purpose of the arm is to support the cartridge as well as possible. Swings vs. roundabouts.
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PsB said:
The only time I heard a 12” SME was side by side with a 9”. I didn’t think there was much difference, but the shorter arm might have sounded marginally better (tighter, bit more dynamic).
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I would disagree here, having gone from 9" to 12" in the early seventies then back to (a number of) 9" (incl. then Five) then more recently to two 12" (unipivot + gimal) arms. The 12" is ergonomically better; easier to handle and cue. It looks better on a deck which can take it. 12" arms are often beefed-up 9" ones and therefore fit for purpose regarding rigidity. They usually have more eff. mass which is better for most m/coils.

Tonally I've found them slightly more laid-back in comparison but they have a more 'surefooted' feeling and of course, little or no end of side distortion. Dynamics are not reduced but merely refined (!)

Each to his own, but I would not revert to (A) a 9" arm, and (B) a suspended deck (which in most/many cases only takes a 9" arm because of footprint and suspension.
 
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