Musical genius

[Tony L]

Miles Davis is not in the same league as Ellington or Armstrong as much as I rate him. I would put Monk above him also & probably Mingus.

I don’t agree at all. Miles produced a staggering body of work, one that I keep returning to more than any other musician. Like many great musicians he understood perfectly when not to play, when to allow others space etc. I’m not saying the others weren’t amazing, but Monk had said all he really had to say within the first handful of albums and just re-said it for the rest of his career. Mingus had a run of absolutely stunning and totally groundbreaking albums between 1959 and 63, but really that’s it. He was done. Davis just kept on going, kept on innovating and remained at the absolute forefront of music until the very last phase of his life. Even then Tutu and Amandla still stand up. There is no other jazz musician like him as the few that had the potential died too soon (e.g. Coltrane, Dolphy etc). You could make a case for Herbie Hancock, Keith Jarrett too, but none got even close the diversity and off the wall innovation of the work Miles left. Ellington and Armstrong were clearly geniuses, but neither stepped as far outside of their safe-zone as Miles. Neither reinvented themselves so many times.

 

[Woodface]

I've got to agree re Dylan, he's wrote some fantastic songs but I always prefer to hear other people singing them

I really like other non-singers like, say, Randy Newman or Tom Waits but they are also interesting musically.

 

[Woodface]

I don’t agree at all. Miles produced a staggering body of work, one that I keep returning to more than any other musician. Like many great musicians he understood perfectly when not to play, when to allow others space etc. I’m not saying the others weren’t amazing, but Monk had said all he really had to say within the first handful of albums and just re-said it for the rest of his career. Mingus had a run of absolutely stunning and totally groundbreaking albums between 1959 and 63, but really that’s it. He was done. Davis just kept on going, kept on innovating and remained at the absolute forefront of music until the very last phase of his life. Even then Tutu and Amandla still stand up. There is no other jazz musician like him as the few that had the potential died too soon (e.g. Coltrane, Dolphy etc). You could make a case for Herbie Hancock, Keith Jarrett too, but none got even close the diversity and off the wall innovation of the work Miles left. Ellington and Armstrong were clearly geniuses, but neither stepped as far outside of their safe-zone as Miles. Neither reinvented themselves so many times.

You are Miles super fan & I respect that, I don’t care for his fusion stuff at all & you are far too generous with his 80s output IMV.

Ellington did a lot more than Miles, sorry, he kept reinventing what was possible in large scale works throughout his career & also collaborated with small groups. Armstrong stuck within his own idiom to a degree but did cross over into the mainstream & his later work with the Fitzgerald duets & his own re-working of standards is without parallel. Miles Davis always made a point of watching ‘Pops’ play & always felt he learned something from him, even in his later years.

Monk had a narrower creative window but he wrote actual standards that are still covered & played to this day. His later live work was stunning.

I really like Miles Davis but I don’t put him above others in the way you do; I agree he was basically a genius but he had a better start in life than most. It was Ellington & Armstrong which codified what Jazz is/was & their influence on everything that came after cannot be overstated.

 

[paulfromcamden]

In the context of jazz I would humbly submit...

 

[kjb]

Having parked my reservation about the rather loose use of genius, I’d add Ornette Coleman to the jazz wing of the conversation conversation. He took jazz on a left turn in a way that has had a huge influence on the music and then showed there was a different way to produce electric jazz that wasn’t fusion. He also ( like Ellington) took jazz from the club to the concert hall and composed for orchestral settings. But don’t mention his violin playing .....