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Musical Fidelity

Galty said:
Thanks to all who posted advise and it does appear that MF is not really rated and I should be looking elsewhere. The rega elex r must be the starting point too!
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I'm not sure how you come to that conclusion...

I'm not particularly familiar with current MF products but "back in the day" I would have had MF amps in preference to anything from Naim, Exposure, Meridian or Rega... and I don't like the company... some of the products yes.

A second hand A370 could be picked up for less than £1K I would have thought. Spend about £500 refurbing it and you have a power amp that will completely mullah anything from any of the above companies;) (going on £3K new in 1990 ish)

A P140 or P150 makes a great little 70WPC power amp that will scare off some expensive competition and at about £130 ish second hand I'd take one over an Exposure VIII all day long...
 
Hi arkless... I've been reading people getting into real detail about quality issues both with products made both in the UK and Asia. Quality control is surely tighter now I'm sure! Regarding your advise of the A370 or AP140/150 what would you advise to use as a pre amp?
 
Galty said:
Hi arkless... I've been reading people getting into real detail about quality issues both with products made both in the UK and Asia. Quality control is surely tighter now I'm sure! Regarding your advise of the A370 or AP140/150 what would you advise to use as a pre amp?
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One would hope that quality control has improved since those days yes!

It was a bit hit and miss as far as peoples practical experiences with reliability issues went but in the case of all the above models, well even the ones which are still working will be in need of a re-cap and service by now anyway.

All of the MF kit mentioned can be made reliable and also much improved in performance by doing the job properly in the rebuild, as it should have been in the first place if MF hadn't been so penny pinching!

I've no particular preference pre amp wise as I'm a fan of passives personally but a sweet spot in the MF range at the time was the "Pre 3-A". This was the main one sold with the P140 and has an excellent line stage and pretty good phono stage. It is a bit noisy though. The difference between the P140 and P150 power amps is in noise as well. The 140 is a bit hissy. The P150 has a small mod to reduce the background hiss (only noticeable with no music playing anyway) but is identical and sounds the same in other areas.

Their best pre amp was the MVX but it was about £3.5K back then and very rare. I would take a Pre 3-A (£300 ish new 1990) over any other pre in the range other than the MVX. Be wary of similar models. There was a Pre3 and a Pre 3-B but the 3-A is the one you want. It uses valve like topologies but built with small mosfets, bizarrely...

All of the above kit was designed by Tim de Paravicini of EAR fame.
 
Arkless Repairs said:
I'm a big fan of class A myself and there can be no doubting its overall superiority to any other type of power amp but, as you say, it's very expensive, runs hot and eats 'leccy...
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Tony L said:
A little class A amp, tube or solid state, and efficient speakers is a good option though.
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Aye, I think the sweet spot for proper class A amps is between 30-50W per side. My 30W Pioneer M-22 is just enough for a pair of Yamaha NS-1000Ms.

There is also no denying (my ears, at least) that class-A sounds less hashy and purer, certainly when I compare the M-22 against class-AB DV HX1.2-mk2 and Densen B-350s, both of which are significantly more powerful yet less persuasive.
 
James said:
Aye, I think the sweet spot for proper class A amps is between 30-50W per side. My 30W Pioneer M-22 is just enough for a pair of Yamaha NS-1000Ms.

There is also no denying (my ears, at least) that class-A sounds less hashy and purer, certainly when I compare the M-22 against class-AB DV HX1.2-mk2 and Densen B-350s, both of which are significantly more powerful yet less persuasive.
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It certainly gets economically and physically awkward beyond that level yes!

There are few amps above 50WPC that are genuinely class A to full output, no matter what one may read often... An example I gave the other day was the MF A370. Widely believed to be a class A amp and usually advertised as such it actually makes only the first 18 of its 200WPC in class A.
 
I shared a flat with some of the larger Krells back in the ‘90s, which are, and will wear the bearings out on ones electricity meter in no time. They keep the room uncomfortably warm in summer too, but are nice in the winter.

The only class A amps I’ve owned myself have been tube amps, very happy with my little Stereo 20. All I’ll ever need really.
 
Krells are exceedingly rare in my neck of the woods. I don't think I've seen a vintage KSA or KMA pair of any size in the flesh, let alone hear one. Does anyone rate Plinius SA-50/SA-100/SA-250 amps? I have been threatened with ex-communication by well intentioned flat-earth friends for even contemplating the idea of trying one out.

My own 'little' 20kg M-22 consumes 240W for its 30+30W output, so at best 25% efficiency. I only imagine a 100+100W SA-100 should spin the 'leccy meter at 800W to be legit class A to rated power.
 
I bought the very first 120V model of the MVT preamp in 1985 or so for a princely 800UKP, being very biased by the fanboi relationship that one JMH had with the early 'The Preamp', thinking that a model costing 4x as much must be pretty swift. I was also taken in by the press release that touted 'active volume control' (like 99.99999% of other preamps) and Class A circuitry (like 99.9999999% of other preamps to). If that was the best they could do to advertise it, in retrospect it could not have been that great......

And it wasn't. It was flat and boring compared to the 42/Hicap I had just gotten rid of. It also had a loud hiss sound that appeared modulated by the input signal-you could hear the hiss pumping in the background. I had a friend replace a dozen 5532 with some higher spec opamps, bypass the balance control and put decent RCA jacks to replace the PCB mounted ones that had a habit of shorting if there was not perfect stress relief on the interconnects.
My first...and last MF purchase.

Arkless Repairs said:
Matching pre amp was the MVT, the initials being of one Dr Thomas, whose name some may recall from an earlier MF power amp. This was good but not that good... IMHO. The MVX (designed by TdP) which supplanted it was simply sublime... in spite of having output transformers!
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Memory is foggy, but I certainly recall the little original ‘The Preamp’ with the illuminated red logo (at least to start with, the bulbs went out with time) sounded a lot nicer than the MVT. I’d like to hear one again one day, I have a feeling it was one of MF’s better early products and partnered with say a P170 would be a very good combo today for not a lot of cash. A neat looking little thing too. IIRC LesW modified them too.
 
Tony L said:
I shared a flat with some of the larger Krells back in the ‘90s, which are, and will wear the bearings out on ones electricity meter in no time. They keep the room uncomfortably warm in summer too, but are nice in the winter.

The only class A amps I’ve owned myself have been tube amps, very happy with my little Stereo 20. All I’ll ever need really.
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I never said class A was easy or cheap! The 11WPC of the Stereo 20 (in mainly class a) are indeed ultimately all most sane people need. I love mine to bits and would never part it with it.

Me and Stereo 20's have a long history!

I use mine as my reference for other power amp designs... if it sounds in some way radically different from the Stereo 20 then it's doing something badly wrong;)
Ultimately though the class A SS Arkless amp I use as my present reference will blow it out of the water... The only amp I've ever had here (including big Krells etc etc etc. I get to play with some esoteric kit as part of the job) that have really worried my own SS class A amp was a Radford STA25 mkIII which I completely rebuilt with modern parts for a customer.

Do not listen to a fully sorted Radford STA25 unless you an afford to buy it!
 
Tony L said:
Memory is foggy, but I certainly recall the little original ‘The Preamp’ with the illuminated red logo (at least to start with, the bulbs went out with time) sounded a lot nicer than the MVT. I’d like to hear one again one day, I have a feeling it was one of MF’s better early products and partnered with say a P170 would be a very good combo today for not a lot of cash. A neat looking little thing too. IIRC LesW modified them too.
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The Preamp was a cute little thing and sounded pretty good in spite of being mainly op amps. As I said earlier in another thread my recommendation for sound per pound from the old MF back catalogue would be The Pre 3-A with a P150 (same circuit as P170). An A370 power amp for say £700, needing a bit of work and with £500 on a professional refurb, would blow any Naim amp out of the water! No contest! It would need at least a NAP500 to come close and for a fraction of the price IMHO.
 
rontoolsie said:
I bought the very first 120V model of the MVT preamp in 1985 or so for a princely 800UKP, being very biased by the fanboi relationship that one JMH had with the early 'The Preamp', thinking that a model costing 4x as much must be pretty swift. I was also taken in by the press release that touted 'active volume control' (like 99.99999% of other preamps) and Class A circuitry (like 99.9999999% of other preamps to). If that was the best they could do to advertise it, in retrospect it could not have been that great......

And it wasn't. It was flat and boring compared to the 42/Hicap I had just gotten rid of. It also had a loud hiss sound that appeared modulated by the input signal-you could hear the hiss pumping in the background. I had a friend replace a dozen 5532 with some higher spec opamps, bypass the balance control and put decent RCA jacks to replace the PCB mounted ones that had a habit of shorting if there was not perfect stress relief on the interconnects.
My first...and last MF purchase.
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Other than early Cambridge Audio gear (early 70's) nothing else jumps to mind as using a similar active volume control....

I must be coming across as an MF fanboi, when as far as the company goes I'm quite the opposite. Some of the actual designs were however rather special, and let down by the cheap build that MF used.
Properly sorted, so they perform as the designers intended, they represent, in the case of some of their output, an untapped source of sound bargains which will often beat many of the brands which tend to find favour on this site... and at a fraction of the price;)
 
James said:
My own 'little' 20kg M-22 consumes 240W for its 30+30W output, so at best 25% efficiency. I only imagine a 100+100W SA-100 should spin the 'leccy meter at 800W to be legit class A to rated power.
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Makes me wonder about my JVC M-3030, bastard thing uses 860w for a 100w of class A/B :eek:
 
I have a pair of MF 550K Superchargers, bought when the owner slashed the price. Not had a single problem with them. I really like the fact they go on standby after 5mins of being idle.

Bloss
 
Galty said:
I'm in the market for a used amplifier to upgrade from my current audiolab 8200a....i've heard the Rega Elex R which I liked and I would buy that new and gets rave reviews but I've also seen that some of the older model Musical fidelity and M6i Si models are at good prices. Can any MF owners share their thoughts? I have a collection of speakers at the moment of : Proac Super tabs, Spendor A5's and a pair of Proac Response D15's........I know my amp needs an upgrade lol. Thanks in advance!
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I've had a few amps in my time and currently own the M3si - the sound quality is superb - and features are numerous. Personally I wouldn't bother with the older models simply from my experience of the M3si which is a low cost amp anyway.

I bought this particular amp for need of more power for my Magnepans - and the Maggies are responding well and sounding fine.

If I could afford it - now that I have listened to the pedigree of sound offered by the M3si - I would really like to own the M6si. With 220 Watts on tap you would have an amplifier for life that could drive any speaker you care to own with headroom to spare.

Coincidently I am listening to the M3si now with the Maggies using a French DAC-3 as a front end.
 
I had quite a selection MF kit, over the course of a few years, E100, loads of teh round X series, even a CD-Pre24, and finally culminating in a A308cr pre/power combo, rated at 255wpc in to 8ohms

Well, it was replaced by a Naim 202/200 combo, rated at 70wpc, that kicked its arse around the room.

Biggest prob for MF, IMHO, was that every one soon worked out that they would change their range very frequently, and discount the crap out of the stuff they had to shift. So no-one in their right minds would pay full price for newly launched stuff. I'm pretty sure that didn't enamor the dealers either.
 
That's a good point Fixed wheel, as I've been rooting around looking at MF gear there's so many models! Many more than most manufacturers. Does MF control the Roksan brand too?
 
Galty said:
That's a good point Fixed wheel, as I've been rooting around looking at MF gear there's so many models! Many more than most manufacturers. Does MF control the Roksan brand too?
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Although I own a Roxan turntable and arm their electronics have never interested me. I seem to remember that one of their early expensive CD player last was a budget player in a shiny metallic box.
 
The B200 is the hidden price / perf sweet spot. I didn't like my A1 much (even in the context of an all MF system), but the B200 is really nice. Need to get mine out of the loft and serviced along with my Linx Nebula (another cracker of an amp).
 
I loved my MF X-A1 amp. But when it blew the transformer (in a seperate box) I and my repairer were unable to find any service details and so it was scrapped.

This attitude does not help. For older equipment, manufacturers should (I think) make service sheets available. Public relations.
 
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