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Music - rent or buy?

marshanp said:
Whatever virtues vinyl might lay claim to, it is certainly not an archival medium. Far too fragile, much too much added to the signal it's supposed to be a carrier for...
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Archiving for what exactly? I bought a copy of Yes-Tales from Topographic Oceans that's older than me last week, it's in far better condition than me as well. If you're flinging your records around the room like frisbees, then yes, they can get damaged, they don't exactly take a lot of looking after though.
 
Archiving: preserving for the future something as it was created. Not likely to happen with vinyl if the signal entrusted to it has significant dynamic range. I had lots of LPs once upon a time, and was happy to replace them with CDs. The few records that weren't released as CDs I painstakingly transcribed to digital form, and in doing so found out exactly how much noise, both continuous and sporadic, vinyl had contributed to what I had heard and how much junk needed to be removed from the off-record signal.

LPs may have improved of late, their position in the market having changed; most of those issued during my early years of collecting (the late 70s) were simply not fit for purpose. All of mine were carefully looked after... and many of them were lost causes before they even left the shop.
 
marshanp said:
Archiving: preserving for the future something as it was created. Not likely to happen with vinyl if the signal entrusted to it has significant dynamic range. I had lots of LPs once upon a time, and was happy to replace them with CDs. The few records that weren't released as CDs I painstakingly transcribed to digital form, and in doing so found out exactly how much noise, both continuous and sporadic, vinyl had contributed to what I had heard and how much junk needed to be removed from the off-record signal.

LPs may have improved of late, their position in the market having changed; most of those issued during my early years of collecting (the late 70s) were simply not fit for purpose. All of mine were carefully looked after... and many of them were lost causes before they even left the shop.
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I was halfway through a lengthy reply and lost the will to live, for the record (pun intended), you didn't answer the OP's question
 
I think those saying "both" are on to something. I like Tidal for discovering new music, and mobile listening. I'm inclined to want to own music I like, and used CDs are stupidly inexpensive these days. Often, shipping when ordering online can cost more than the disc itself. Used vinyl seems to be increasing in price, but then again there are some very worthwhile recordings that were never released digitally. I fully expect that the current crop of streaming services are unlikely to remain in business in a decade or two, but I have vinyl from the 1950s that still plays well, and CDs going back nearly 30 years that are still listenable (and now that I've ripped them all lossless, it's even less likely I'll be unable to play them in the future).
 
I use streaming (qubuz) to sort out a purchase list. I don't really care if I purchase on vinyl or CD. CD tends to win because of storage space. It is not just the fact that I do like to own the software, it is also the thought that in retirement I will still want to listen to music, but may not be able to afford the monthly fee for a decent speed internet connection and a decent quality streaming service. That money may be needed for other things. The purchased software will still be here.
 
dudywoxer said:
I use streaming (qubuz) to sort out a purchase list. I don't really care if I purchase on vinyl or CD. CD tends to win because of storage space. It is not just the fact that I do like to own the software, it is also the thought that in retirement I will still want to listen to music, but may not be able to afford the monthly fee for a decent speed internet connection and a decent quality streaming service. That money may be needed for other things. The purchased software will still be here.
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Of all the CDs that you own, how many would you buy again if they were all stolen or lost? Let’s be honest, most folk have dozens, probably hundreds of CDs that they’ve forgotten about and would never miss. Each of those CDs is about a couple of weeks of subscription to a high quality streaming service. Do you want to spend the rest of your life listening to the same old stuff, or do you want to listen to new stuff. If you got into streaming now you will save what you otherwise would spend on CDs, and that could go towards a rainy day fund to cover your music should retirement bring financial constraints. I’m retired. I spend less on my Qobuz/Roon subscription than I ever did on CDs. I could dump the Roon sub if money got tighter. I pay less for high speed internet than I paid for Mickey Mouse connectivity years ago. And I’ve still got my ripped CDs anyway.
 
Qobuz is a bargain - I hope it lives as long as I do.

Still... I occasionally discover things (usually via the Radio 3 breakfast programme which wakes me up each day) which aren't available via streaming; then I buy the download (Hyperion recordings, for example) or the CD (the Errollyn Wallen first release; the Steve Martland collection).

I don't really care what format the music that arrives at my ears started from, as long as it doesn't draw attention to itself.
 
marshanp said:
Archiving: preserving for the future something as it was created.
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In 5,000 years time an archaeologist stumbles across some LPs and some hard disk drives/CDs. I'm guessing they'd be far more likely to get music out of the LP grooves - even if there weren't and record players then - than the digital media.
 
marshanp said:
Archiving: preserving for the future something as it was created. Not likely to happen with vinyl if the signal entrusted to it has significant dynamic range. I had lots of LPs once upon a time, and was happy to replace them with CDs. The few records that weren't released as CDs I painstakingly transcribed to digital form, and in doing so found out exactly how much noise, both continuous and sporadic, vinyl had contributed to what I had heard and how much junk needed to be removed from the off-record signal.

LPs may have improved of late, their position in the market having changed; most of those issued during my early years of collecting (the late 70s) were simply not fit for purpose. All of mine were carefully looked after... and many of them were lost causes before they even left the shop.
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Choosing a format for Archiving in the proper sense is a significant problem. As it happens the 'umble LP is better than any alternative. Because it is a mechanical medium.
Magnetic Tape degrades. CD's do not last as long as many would think. Computer storage is also ultimately magnetic and will not last forever. Not many floppy drives in working condition now - only 30 years after arriving.

A huge factor is that any format must be capable of being 'played' or recovered decades or centuries in the future. Anything electronic is ruled out - the tech just gets over run and unsupportable. Any idea how anyone would repair a CD player in 100 years time? Parts will not be available and are only producible if you are going to make many thousands of them. Yes 3 d printing can copy mechanical parts - laser assemblies would be a different matter.

In the future, pick up an LP 200 years old - and a man could easily devise a way of reading the grooves - even if cartridges were no longer made.
 
AndyU said:
Of all the CDs that you own, how many would you buy again if they were all stolen or lost? Let’s be honest, most folk have dozens, probably hundreds of CDs that they’ve forgotten about and would never miss. Each of those CDs is about a couple of weeks of subscription to a high quality streaming service. Do you want to spend the rest of your life listening to the same old stuff, or do you want to listen to new stuff. If you got into streaming now you will save what you otherwise would spend on CDs, and that could go towards a rainy day fund to cover your music should retirement bring financial constraints. I’m retired. I spend less on my Qobuz/Roon subscription than I ever did on CDs. I could dump the Roon sub if money got tighter. I pay less for high speed internet than I paid for Mickey Mouse connectivity years ago. And I’ve still got my ripped CDs anyway.
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probably 75-80% would be replaced. As to the cost of internet streaming I would think I spend more on that (£85 a month) than I have spent on music in any other way over the last few years. It is definatley something that will be among the first to go should the need arise. By that I mean both the internet and streaming.
 
Stunsworth said:
In 5,000 years time an archaeologist stumbles across some LPs and some hard disk drives/CDs. I'm guessing they'd be far more likely to get music out of the LP grooves - even if there weren't and record players then - than the digital media.
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He'll have no problem. Linn will still be marketing ever more expensive updates for the LP12, and the anti-Linnies will still be criticising them.
 
I've played around with a number of streaming services but I find a CD sounds better. A CD also sounds better (in my system) to its ripped counterpart (my head begins to hurt if I try to think why this can be, but it is and that's enough.) The biggest issue [for me] with the high quality streaming services is that I simply wasn't using them enough to warrant the £20+/month, so I've settled on buying 2nd Hand Cds, (which sound great when played) and ripping them to a network drive. My personal Qobuz if you like. If I want to hear new music I can use free spotify to see what I like, then buy the LP if I can. It can be a bit of a Pfaff ripping CDs, but worth it once it's done.
 
Stunsworth said:
In 5,000 years time an archaeologist stumbles across some LPs and some hard disk drives/CDs. I'm guessing they'd be far more likely to get music out of the LP grooves - even if there weren't and record players then - than the digital media.
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Quite possibly; but to what extent will the signal retrieved represent the one that was recorded?

As for the likelihood of future investigators being able to retrieve signals digitally encoded... how can we possibly predict their abilities? It seems to me that future archaeologists (who will almost certainly be from another solar system) will be perfectly able to decode our digital recordings. They travelled to our planet, after all...
 
marshanp said:
As for the likelihood of future investigators being able to retrieve signals digitally encoded... how can we possibly predict their abilities? It seems to me that future archaeologists (who will almost certainly be from another solar system) will be perfectly able to decode our digital recordings. They travelled to our planet, after all...
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It’s almost certain than any magnetic media would have lost its magnetism, solid state media would have deteriorated and the aluminium layer on CDs would have rotted.

There are similar issues and concerns about what archives will be available for future historians. Letters written on paper stand a good chance of being preserved. Emails on the other hand...
 
I have not downloaded any music. I listen on youtube for potential purchases, usually after hearing a track on the radio I like.

Vinyl buys outnumber cd's by maybe 10 to 1. I only make a couple of purchases a month now on average

Bloss
 
Here is a reply to a request I made the other day when asking a band I like about whether they were going to release their latest album on CD. Bear in mind all their previous 5 albums had been on CD when it was the only medium:

No we aren’t. We all must evolve past plastic products made from fossil fuels. When they make a medium to distribute music on hemp-derived CDs, we will print them! But until then we are keeping it clean for the environment...

Guess I won't be hearing their new album after all because sure as hell I won't be renting it!!!
 
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