1. Things you need to know about the new ‘Conversations’ PM system:

    a) DO NOT REPLY TO THE NOTIFICATION EMAIL! I get them, not the intended recipient. I get a lot of them and I do not want them! It is just a notification, log into the site and reply from there.

    b) To delete old conversations use the ‘Leave conversation’ option. This is just delete by another name.
    Dismiss Notice

Munich show 2023

Discussion in 'audio' started by krenzler, May 19, 2023.

  1. Tony L

    Tony L Administrator

    I’m not “annoyed” at all, just a little depressed that the market has lost almost all the cultural relevance and accessibility it had in my day. There are still some options available, but a walk around these shows always highlights an aging niche demographic. Every year the average punter age is a year older!
    nmtjb likes this.
  2. Colin L

    Colin L High-tech low-life

    There’s plenty of good, cheaper Hifi for young people to start on the ladder if they are interested. The problem is that younger folk don’t view music and a decent system to play it on as desirable or even affordable given the squeeze on incomes and cost of education, rent etc…

    What’s happening in Munich has absolutely nothing to do with that.
  3. Darren L

    Darren L pfm Member

    I'm sure there's some nice gear at this show, Mofi phonostage, Moonriver 505 phonostage and the new lower cost Brinkmann 12.0 twelve inch tonearm are a few items that took my interest in the various videos and pics I've seen online.
    I think the 'gross' systems and components just hog the limelight, whilst I'm sure the OMA, AS, WB , CS-port and Techdas TTs sound impressive and the engineering and machine work is impressive I find they've little or no appeal personally, for the most part the 'high end' is quite vulgar in appearance IMHO
    ask likes this.
  4. daytona600

    daytona600 Registered User

    Clue in in the name - High End Munich
    If you have 6 or even 7 figure budgets
    Biggest stand each year Pro-Ject

    ask likes this.
  5. krenzler

    krenzler pfm Member

    Still more or less a Jelco arm though right (nowt wrong with that)?
  6. johnhunt

    johnhunt pfm Member

  7. krenzler

    krenzler pfm Member

    Opportunistic smorgasbord springs to mind.
  8. Jlc

    Jlc New Member

    Hello Tony,

    Long time lurker been in to records and record players for around 40yrs. I had to write wrt to the above.

    I went to Munich last weekend and was impressed with the demographic, lots and lots of youngsters, families with children, and lots of girls, us old middle aged men were still majority but I'd say only just. Events like this should be encouraged as they are obviously doing something right in attracting young and diverse blood, something the stuffy old shows here in the UK could learn from.

    Something else about the show you may not know is that there is another show at another hotel happening on the same days, instead of competing, they lay on a complementary shuttle bus between the 2 shows and celebrate both. Other things they do to make it easier is to include a public transport ticket to the show as part of the show ticket. Due to the international nature of the show there is a free shuttle bus from and to the airport; they even put the coat and luggage check at the front of the venue so you can get off the plane dump your bags and enjoy the show; there's a reason why it is so appealing they make it so easy.

    About the vulgar stuff: analogous to car shows, it's the latest and greatest people go to see not the Vauxhal Corsas, doesn't mean you have to like it or buy it; and there's more of the real world stuff than the flashy stuff it's just that the flashy stuff people report on rather than the poor old Corsa.

    Shows like Munich are doing so much to stimulate and promote our hobby and also helps us broaden our UK centric view of the world, they should be celebrated and encouraged. It's the only place where I've been where it feels vibrant and exciting to be around hifi and people interested in hifi who are of a more normal demographic.

    Hopes this helps make you perhaps a little less depressed and provides a different perspective on why we should be more optimistic about our hobby.


  9. sonddek

    sonddek Trade: SUPATRAC

    Thanks for that.

    On page 118 ( SUPATRAC's modest table in the Start-ups section looks quiet, but in fact it was exceptionally busy. The reason it looks deserted is that we had a stroke of luck long after closing time on the first day. I ran out of time before the show so I was still finishing setting up a turntable at 8pm when I overheard the only other people left in Halle 1 discussing a turntable problem they had. I went over and asked them if they needed a turntable - I had brought four and could barely squeeze them onto my modest stand. I was only trying to be helpful and keep audio fun, but it turned out to be a fantastic opportunity. The room belonged to Moonriver-Sonner-Panchanko-OePhi and they were not happy with their Brinkmann Bardo/10.5 - apparently it sounded dead, 'closed in' and uninspiring.

    George of Moonriver wanted to take my red Garrard, but it had been attracting a lot of attention, so I offered him my old 1210 Mk5 instead. Of course he was skeptical, but I said "try it at 8am tomorrow and if you like it, keep it for the show". Well, when we tried it, we were all grinning by the end of the first track, and not only did they keep it for the show, but we had a steady flow of important people coming in to listen, including Michael Fremer, Mark Dohmann, and the CEOs and engineers of household-name turntable and cartridge companies.

    So the most likely reason my-hiend has a picture of the stand looking deserted is that we were across the way demonstrating:

    Most of the time it looked like this:

    Here are Michael Fremer and Beau Rammstein (;-) of Oswalds Mill Audio getting some SUPATRAC blather:
    Musicman19, andrewd, Rana and 3 others like this.
  10. Salamander

    Salamander pfm Member

    I'm not annoyed but it's starting to annoy me" :D

    I'm sure everyone knows what you mean Tony. I can even understand speakers costing £100k, but how on earth is there a market for them costing nearly a million!
    I remember reading a Roy Gregory review on a Lyra pre amp that cost approx £16k, I thought that was in another stratosphere, but nowadays would be classed as bargain hi-end.
  11. boegelund

    boegelund pfm Member

    FWIW a friends relative (age 30-35) just purchased a third Technics turntable new.

    Never seen that many turntables at a show as this year.
    That Supatrac tonearm does look the business, hope they get success to deserve.

    Touraj's Vertere decks were possible among the very best source at alternative Hifi deluxe show, with FM amps, French FMR used Touraj decks too with their rather stunning setup.

    One thing...prices has gone even more crazy this year.
    Jlc likes this.
  12. tonerei

    tonerei pfm Member

    A friend commented on that. It was either turntable or streaming.

    Definitely prices are in general following inflation+. I am certainly happy not to need to buy something brand new.

    As well as plenty of turntables a lot of rooms had serious room treatments. In general they sounded the best. God help some of the smaller displayers who actually had kit playing in the open hall.
  13. sonddek

    sonddek Trade: SUPATRAC

    Bear in mind that as a producer you're lucky if you get 10% of retail per unit. Actually making the kit is a very small part of the equation. I'm learning this the hard way, but I don't think anybody is being cheeky - it just costs quite a lot to run distribution networks for valuable heavy kit in a highly competitive market.
  14. boegelund

    boegelund pfm Member

    No idea of those figures really.
    I noticed amps, streamers, speakers, you name it, fecking €20K was not unusual, insane, even if they provide 40% discount.
    The little Nait 50 looked cheap within the madness.

    The Western Electric loudspeakers were probably the single ones which couldn't be purchased, nearly 100 years old.
    Didn't dare to ask prices for their Silbatone amps, what a lovely sounding room and bunch of people, included Mr. Schroeder and Mr. Schick with their excellent analog playback.

  15. sonddek

    sonddek Trade: SUPATRAC

    I wish I had heard this. I have never been to shows before this year. Attending as an exhibitor is a bit frustrating as I don't have time to hear other rooms. It was still a lot of fun though.
  16. boegelund

    boegelund pfm Member

    A friend did attend as exhibitor years back, he always had a few friends or relatives around to assist, food, toilet, other things..
    Had I known I would be happy to help during a well deserved pause.
  17. Tony L

    Tony L Administrator

    Predictably that’s the room I’d have spent most time in. Likely hours!
  18. sonddek

    sonddek Trade: SUPATRAC

    That is a very kind thought - thank you. I brought my poor long-suffering wife who held the fort very bravely, but quite often she was faced with quite technical questions about the linearity or otherwise of the anti-skate mechanism or what-have-you and usually when I returned to her there was someone important waiting to meet me, so I never felt that I could cover any ground or spend enough time in a room to hear more than an unfamiliar snatch or two, usually of sparse jazz ballads.

    One of my most cherished German customers did a terrific job of talking about the arm to German press on Saturday - I wished I could have hired him as a representative for the duration. Hopefully next year I can pull together a crack team of polyglots.
    pickwickpapers and Iain Docherty like this.
  19. daytona600

    daytona600 Registered User

    The Western Electric loudspeakers were probably the single ones which couldn't be purchased, nearly 100 years old.
    Predictably that’s the room I’d have spent most time in. Likely hours!

    WE/Silbatone always a good room ESD from china had a modern version


  20. paulfromcamden

    paulfromcamden Baffled

    You could have a word with 13 Audio:

Share This Page


  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
    Dismiss Notice