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MQA

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I could be wrong but I seem to remember you saying somewhere that you are an aviation engineer (or similar?) with no real deep technical knowledge on this matter? unless you believe you have developed it already after another few hundred posts? Could well be? I don’t mind and help is available.
In any case, apologies for not being able to entertain you any further!
Aerospace.

I am certainly not claiming technical knowledge of MQA. There are two others here who have been/are looking at the system from that angle.

What I do have is a wealth of empirical knowledge having been listening to MQA since it's availability through multiple MQA DACs and comparing it to LPCM versions (Qobuz and Amazon HD).
 
Is it really so difficult to understand that I prefer "unsauced" and lossless music so I can decide for myself how I may like to flavour it when playing back?

I don't need some pretty licensed algorithm to shape my music into a lossy format that MQA claim will make my music sound "better" than it was originally recorded and produced. No ketchup for me.

What exactly does MQA authenticate when they refuse to let us know which original recordings they use as bases for their lossy "improvements" on those files?

How can a lossy file be said to be an authenticated master of a lossless file?

The fancy origami hocus pocus is a money machine aiming to lock music into one format that all adopters from musicians, producers, record companies, streaming services, hardware manufacturers, and end-users will have to pay extra for. The only beneficiaries will be MQA and its share hoarders.

The pro-MQA crowd of one can kick and scream and ridicule and self-aggrandize and sneer all they care.

The burden of verifiable proof is on MQA and its proponents.
 
Dear Dimity,

You are addressing a wide range of people technically, from those who turn their replay on and just listen, through who know something of the topic of the techniques of replay, and a few who actually understand Digital signal replay completely. You cannot possibly tell which people are those who are [in your terms] uninformed and those who probably actually really do know even more than you may.

You cannot quite get away with dismissing the opinions of those who love music and use replay in the home to access something they love, just because they are not experts on modern digital systems. If they love music and hence use quite advanced replay systems, they are entitled to a view on how MQA may iimpinge on them in future if it does not already.

For myself, I am not aware of ever having listened to replayed music at a quality standard than Redbook [CD], and I can say that it is good enough. In some ways it improves on VHF/FM radio, even optimal compared to optimal. I have zero interest in ever getting a better medium for recordings in a library at home than Redbook. It is more than good enough for my use.

Where I come unstuck with MQA, is that Bob Stuart wants to insert this unproven [scientifically] and certainly noise additive system into the recording chain so that I may not be able to avoid an un-necessary complication that [in your own words, and in own stated preference] is only better to you some of the time.

Technically we face a problem. The frequency range of most commonly used microphones does not exceed that frequency range possible from Redbook. Same with the other end, the domestic loudspeaker. However Hi-res digital recording can capture inaudible sounds that are higher up the sound spectrum.

This may seem admirable if they were caught by the microphone or repayable on most home replay systems even if most human adults cannot actually not hear it. But the problem is that out of audible band sonics [even though they a systematic noise rather than musical information caught by the microphone] can modulate the audible spectrum. Much better to cut out the super-aural systemic noise and reproduce the audible frequencies with the least additional noise and distortion possible.

This makes a fine argument against the recording machines from collecting information [noise/distortion] that the microphone cannot collect in the first place.

So why am I not entirely neutral about MQA? [And I know you realise that I am not].

So simple. It brings in non-musical distortions and noise from outside of the audible band, manipulates them and claims to have improve the end result. But the end result is accounting for what is discounted at the very stage of the microphone!

That is fine, but it does stick in my craw is that I may have to buy additional decoding hardware to avoid the effects of undecoded MQA ... this is real enough. I could be totally selfish and say that the mainstream classical record labels have not adopted MQA [yet], but other labels dedicated to other genres have. If the sole offering of these labels and streaming services take on the music that I am interested in I would consider that out of band distortions mixed into audible band replay [because I have no intention of buying into MQA decoding] is a move backwards in replay. For those whose interest is in areas where MQA has already raised it ugly head, I can only express my sympathy and solidarity in their fight for the highest stands to be maintained.

If MQA makes a sonic that in some circumstances some people may prefer, then simply add it to suitable DACs as a filter called MQA enhanced sound.

But I will not refrain from pointing out that MQA is like LP, in that is is always different from the master. Pure lossless digital is bit perfectly a presentation of the master as approved for publication.

I love an honest to goodness fried egg on toast. I prefer to leave the ketchup off it, even if some people prefer it with ketchup. Now where is the parallel in this. MQA as streamed or released [as is the plan] on LP or CD would mean that I cannot do without a condiment that at best is only preferable to some people sometime.

No the answer lies in a filter for MQA enhanced sound at the user end. Jus like tone controls that were normal only twenty years ago.

That is all MQA can be at best. A tone control ...

Best wishes from George
George,

I think you are arguing against hires in general. Certainly, the ASR hires primer showed scarily high levels of high ultrasonic noise imbedded in a lossless master - what most people here consider the holy grail of audio replay.

Unless your hearing extends beyond 16KHz, you will not be bothered by playback of MQA material into non-MQA DAC.

What MQA captures from the near-infinite hires recording is the musically relevant data - a shaped triangle in the FFT domain. It purposefully discards the recorded junk and digitally manufactured noise. Anything above near ultrasonic frequency is not only not music but is actually harmful for high fidelity replay as it may put your amplification chain into undesirable behavior. MQA correctly discards this harmful junk.

You paragraph that starts with "So simple," is entirely incorrect. It likely stems from tons of purposefully misleading information you have been exposed to. There is no "distortion in the audio band" in a properly decoded and rendered MQA. None. It does use a different reconstruction filter, which does change impulse response. This is not distortion but an inherent characteric of any ADA chain - every ADC and DAC has this.

All available evidence (and there isn't much) points to MQA having an excellent time domain behavior. It certainly sounds that way on my phase coherent and very low distortion system.

If you read what people who have seriously listened to MQA have written (only two or three on this thread) they are describing excellent sonic performance. And they can do this because they have actual empirical evidence.

Think about it.
 
Aerospace.

I am certainly not claiming technical knowledge of MQA. There are two others here who have been/are looking at the system from that angle.

What I do have is a wealth of empirical knowledge having been listening to MQA since it's availability through multiple MQA DACs and comparing it to LPCM versions (Qobuz and Amazon HD).

I don't have as much experience as you, but I have had a few periods of using Tidal with MQA hardware/software. The difference is pretty clear to me. MP3, ogg, flac etc all sound the same. MQA is different. On the plus side, softer and more 3D, on the minus side, less dynamic and slightly "off" sounding (depending on track).

Obviously this kind of flavouring is something you'd want to control as a user, rather than having it rammed down your throat, or introduced by stealth.
 
Is it really so difficult to understand that I prefer "unsauced" and lossless music so I can decide for myself how I may like to flavour it when playing back?

I don't need some pretty licensed algorithm to shape my music into a lossy format that MQA claim will make my music sound "better" than it was originally recorded and produced. No ketchup for me.

What exactly does MQA authenticate when they refuse to let us know which original recordings they use as bases for their lossy "improvements" on those files?

How can a lossy file be said to be an authenticated master of a lossless file?

The fancy origami hocus pocus is a money machine aiming to lock music into one format that all adopters from musicians, producers, record companies, streaming services, hardware manufacturers, and end-users will have to pay extra for. The only beneficiaries will be MQA and its share hoarders.

The pro-MQA crowd of one can kick and scream and ridicule and self-aggrandize and sneer all they care.

The burden of verifiable proof is on MQA and its proponents.
You actually have literally NO IDEA WHAT YOU PREFER. None.

In order to know your own preference, you must compare.

You haven't done that. Instead you regurgitate other people's equally ignorant opinions.
 
I don't have as much experience as you, but I have had a few periods of using Tidal with MQA hardware/software. The difference is pretty clear to me. MP3, ogg, flac etc all sound the same. MQA is different. On the plus side, softer and more 3D, on the minus side, less dynamic and slightly "off" sounding (depending on track).

Obviously this kind of flavouring is something you'd want to control as a user, rather than having it rammed down your throat, or introduced by stealth.
You have three hires streaming services to choose from. Only one uses MQA.
 
George,

I think you are arguing against hires in general. ...

Think about it.

Indeed you assume correctly in this case. This is a position I have held for twenty five years. You have read my post and understand why.

Best wishes from George
 
You have three hires streaming services to choose from. Only one uses MQA.

Qobuz is the only one that works with the playback software / hardware that the majority of audiophiles use. And they are a pretty minor player, smaller than Tidal and not even available in many countries. Lossless streaming, via an API open to all, simply cannot be taken for granted.
 
I do like this idea of tone control and calling it simply what it is, a multilayer quality affecting (MQA) tone control? How have MQA not thought about that? If they really wanted, they could have even added that it’s lossy and nothing to do with any actual masters.
In addition, as I understand, the only valid opinion here seems to be that this tone control is sometimes preferred, so that’s a great start.
 
Is it really so difficult to understand that I prefer "unsauced" and lossless music so I can decide for myself how I may like to flavour it when playing back?

I don't need some pretty licensed algorithm to shape my music into a lossy format that MQA claim will make my music sound "better" than it was originally recorded and produced. No ketchup for me.

What exactly does MQA authenticate when they refuse to let us know which original recordings they use as bases for their lossy "improvements" on those files?

How can a lossy file be said to be an authenticated master of a lossless file?

The fancy origami hocus pocus is a money machine aiming to lock music into one format that all adopters from musicians, producers, record companies, streaming services, hardware manufacturers, and end-users will have to pay extra for. The only beneficiaries will be MQA and its share hoarders.

The pro-MQA crowd of one can kick and scream and ridicule and self-aggrandize and sneer all they care.

The burden of verifiable proof is on MQA and its proponents.
Proof is in the listening. You are just repeating "what others have said." Throwing meaningless terms "unsauced" and "lossless," as if they are really relevant. As ASR has shown us your precious lossless master is about 90% ultrasonic noise, and very loud one at that. It may be actually damaging to some systems, as ASR suggests. I definitely don't want to listen to that! And apparently DXD, which *everyone* loves, does this by design...
I do like this idea of tone control and calling it simply what it is, a multilayer quality affecting (MQA) tone control? How have MQA not thought about that? If they really wanted, they could have even added that it’s lossy and nothing to do with any actual masters.
In addition, as I understand, the only valid opinion here seems to be that he sometimes likes this tone control, so that’s a great start.
Whenever audiophiles want to be insulting to something, they call it a "tone control."

Your reply is as predictable as RWs endless dumping the same videos into this thread. And equally knowledge-free.
 
Qobuz is the only one that works with the playback software / hardware that the majority of audiophiles use. And they are a pretty minor player, smaller than Tidal and not even available in many countries. Lossless streaming, via an API open to all, simply cannot be taken for granted.
Absolutely. I subscribe to them all.

And I am impressed that you actually listened to MQA and gave it a fair shot. While you decided it wasn't for you, you actually contributed knowledge to this debate.

And for that we are all greatful, so thank you.
 
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Whenever audiophiles want to be insulting to something, they call it a "tone control."
I am learning!
As for the rest, as you yourself noted clealry just above, and let me also just add - according to your own book, your opinion should only have any weight at all only when it comes to your wealth of empirical listening experience (so your preference) - nothing more, nothing less! and it’s duly noted! nothing else technical, or to the essence of technology, or its implications and meaning you have or would comment on here on this subject should be considered or matter in any way as informed, or have any weight, correct, right? Am I following your polite instructions and notes?
 
I am learning!
As for the rest, as you yourself noted clealry just above, and let me also just add - according to your own book, your opinion should only have any weight at all only when it comes to your wealth of empirical listening experience (so your preference) - nothing more, nothing less! and it’s duly noted! nothing else technical, or to the essence of technology, or its implications and meaning you have or would comment on here on this subject should be considered or matter in any way as informed, or have any weight, correct, right? Am I following your polite instructions and notes?
Not at all.

Those with technical skills should absolutely use them to learn as much about this technology.

In fact, I have been literally pleading with the main two here, to use their considerable data skills to help perform a public experiment, consisting of both analysis and listening.

There is a public domain MQA decoder and publicly available music - MQA and baseline LPCM. Decoding MQA files back to LPCM will allow for both analysis and listening with standard hardware.
 
Speculation, not fact:
How many people have had their amps explode or oscillate due to playing back lossless hi res music?
 
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