advertisement


"Moral indignation in most cases is, 2% moral, 48% indignation, and 50% envy."

Steven Toy

Steven Toy

Accuphase newbie
http://www.audiostream.com/content/blind-testing-golden-ears-and-envy-oh-my

"Moral indignation in most cases is, 2% moral, 48% indignation, and 50% envy." Vittorio De Sica
Click to expand...

I agree with this. I think the campaign against high-end audio is mostly rooted in envy followed by indignation. Morality (and science) play but a tiny part.

I don't begrudge someone a more expensive system than mine that may or may not sound better than mine. I certainly demand no evidence that it is better.

Which ever way you lean on such matters it is a thought-provoking/interesting article nevertheless.

Read, analyse, discuss. ☺
 
kevindoyle said:
We've gone from admitting that we take part in a marginal hobby that no one else cares about to pretending people envy us? Because people question the value of audiophile ethernet cables?

OK.

Sounds pretty laughable to me, but whatever makes people feel better.
Click to expand...

I don't think references to people entirely outside the hobby and what they might think are either necessary or relevant. The envy clearly comes from those within the hobby who don't like spending money and begrudge others doing so.
 
It might have more impact/credibility if it wasn't on a page festooned with adverts for bling cables.

(FWIW I couldn't give a toss how much anyone else spends or what they spend it on).
 
Isn't this a thread better suited to the 'any other irrelevant prattle' section of the forum?
 
Steven Toy said:
I don't think references to people entirely outside the hobby and what they might think are either necessary or relevant. The envy clearly comes from those within the hobby who don't like spending money and begrudge others doing so.
Click to expand...

This strikes me somewhat as an agenda post. You are maybe trying to sell your world view of fancy accessories, stands, cables etc? I'd happily spend the same money than you (I'm sure I have to be honest), though I'd do it differently as I find a different priority-set sounds better to my ears. I'd only go down the really fancy audiophool jewellery tweak route once I was at the Western Electric horns in a bespoke architect-designed listening room stage. No one ever criticises anyone for choosing a superb pair of speakers and an appropriate amp to drive them!
 
So long as the kids aren't fed on jam butties I couldn't give a toss what people spend though reserve the right to laugh at people spending a fortune on magic stones.
 
Tony L said:
This strikes me somewhat as an agenda post. You are maybe trying to sell your world view of fancy accessories, stands, cables etc? I'd happily spend the same money than you (I'm sure I have to be honest), though I'd do it differently as I find a different priority-set sounds better to my ears. I'd only go down the really fancy audiophool jewellery tweak route once I was at the Western Electric horns in a bespoke architect-designed listening room stage. No one ever criticises anyone for choosing a superb pair of speakers and an appropriate amp to drive them!
Click to expand...

The article perhaps has an agenda, I'm merely the messenger.

Comments about what those outside the hobby may or may not think simply are not relevant and were not the subject of the linked article.

The word 'audiophile' used as pejorative was referred to a number of times. This is usually either by fellow audiophiles who think they are exempt from such a label or those who show far too much interest and pay far too much attention to how others spend their money to be truly outside of the hobby.

You are quite correct that nobody is criticised for purchasing superb (read expensive) speakers. I'm not sure about the amp though.
 
Well, even of those within the hobby, I'd say only a tiny minority fall into the 'only criticising because they can't afford it' category. Most of those who criticise blingy cables do so on the basis that the money would be more effectively spent elsewhere in the system, or on room treatment.
 
Steven Toy said:
I don't think references to people entirely outside the hobby and what they might think are either necessary or relevant. The envy clearly comes from those within the hobby who don't like spending money and begrudge others doing so.
Click to expand...

I can afford audio-foo. I like spending money. I don't buy foo because I recognise it for what it is, and I certainly don't envy anyone taken in by it.
 
Joe Hutch said:
Well, even of those within the hobby, I'd say only a tiny minority fall into the 'only criticising because they can't afford it' category. Most of those who criticise blingy cables do so on the basis that the money would be more effectively spent elsewhere in the system, or on room treatment.
Click to expand...

If we just used "blingy cables" as an example you would be right. It isn't just cables though, is it? It is pretty much anything apart from speakers and room treatment including DACS, amps, preamps and supports.
 
zarniwoop said:
I can afford audio-foo. I like spending money. I don't buy foo because I recognise it for what it is, and I certainly don't envy anyone taken in by it.
Click to expand...

Envy can manifest itself in a variety of ways. Moral indignation (and with it a sense of smug superiority) is obviously one way.
 
zarniwoop said:
I can afford audio-foo. I like spending money. I don't buy foo because I recognise it for what it is, and I certainly don't envy anyone taken in by it.
Click to expand...

Thanks

You made me realise I could spend a lot more on a "better" system but I choose not to because I do not seek to have a source of envy, just enjoy hearing the music I like.
 
Did anyone who has read Steven's posts in the past bother to read the article?

I didn't, since Steven's stance on the matter has been known from the year dot. Even the name of his old forum gives it away.

Now, a thread title "Audiophile Ethernet cables - don't waste your money" posted by Mr Toy I might read.
 
kevindoyle said:
From the article you linked to:



These quotes appear to be culled from articles about audio on popular websites. Not audiophile sites. I know one is taken from the comments section of a Wired article on Tom Port and his Hot Stampers. Clearly, these people do not identify as audiophiles.

The author devoted a major portion of his piece to using these quotes from non-audiophiles. If you think it's not necessary or relevant, take it up with the author, because he chose to cite them and took pains to assemble the attacks from people outside the hobby.

I don't think they envy audiophiles. And I don't think it's so clear cut within the hobby that you can simply call people envious for being critical of spending money. As far as I'm concerned, this charge of envy is simplistic, self serving, and extremely unfair.
Click to expand...

I think I've already covered these points:

The word 'audiophile' used as a pejorative was referred to a number of times. This is usually either by fellow audiophiles who think they are exempt from such a label or those who show far too much interest and pay far too much attention to how others spend their money to be truly outside of the hobby.
Click to expand...
 
avole said:
Did anyone who has read Steven's posts in the past bother to read the article?

I didn't, since Steven's stance on the matter has been known from the year dot. Even the name of his old forum gives it away.

Now, a thread title "Audiophile Ethernet cables - don't waste your money" posted by Mr Toy I might read.
Click to expand...

Bothering to read the article is a must.

"Read, analyse, discuss."

In that order.

Nor reading the article is laziness.

Stating that you haven't read it is trolling.

Btw, I suspect that audiophile ethernet cables probably are a waste of money, so there!

Note I said "probably."
 
Steven Toy said:
Envy can manifest itself in a variety of ways. Moral indignation (and with it a sense of smug superiority) is obviously one way.
Click to expand...

I'm not sure if I have exhibited moral indignation on any audio thread, but if I have it was not driven by envy, which was the basic premise of the article.

As for superiority... see my sig. :)
 
Steven Toy said:
If we just used "blingy cables" as an example you would be right. It isn't just cables though, is it? It is pretty much anything apart from speakers and room treatment including DACS, amps, preamps and supports.
Click to expand...

I can, off the top of my head, call to mind only about 5 posters on pfm (I don't bother much with other forums these days) who take that sort of 'absolutist' line. Granted, they're quite vociferous, so it might seem like there's more of them.

Even with these few, the impression I get is that, with perhaps one exception, they are 'just trying to help' rather than posting from a position of moral indignation or envy.
 
Moral indignation takes many forms all of which are more trouble than they are worth. Hell even having an opinion is asking for hassle dee-luxe, IMO.

Yay for ponies
Yay for pills
Yay for not really caring about what other people think about your choices
Double yay for being inconsistent and muddling about
 
You must log in or register to reply here.


advertisement


Back
Top