Craig B
Re:trophile
Was that the 19mm mylar dome unit, @Radfordman?
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Monitor Audio speakers - history websites?
- Thread starter ex brickie
- Start date
Radfordman
pfm Member
I believe so, quite a nice unit, so was the 6 1/2" bass unit.
Glad to hear that your Monitor 9 are sounding better, @matthew.
Just out of curiosity, do your tweeters look exactly like the example pictured below?
That's the Standard 25 mm Metal dome that's found in the R852, R952 and Monitor 9 and 14. It was also used in the Musical Fidelity MC-4 (MK1 ), Although possibly the R852 and R952 face plates may differ in material used - Metal in the R series...Is it plastic in the Monitor series?
Simon
Craig B
Re:trophile
Thanks for sharing Simon.
l've only encountered the same glass fibre reinforced plastic face plates, same as on the MF ones.
One notable distinction between these MA tweeters and the MF MC-2 Mk1 and MC-4 Mk1 ones is that the latter were drilled through the centre pole piece with a rear wave damping chamber affixed behind the magnet.
MF's OEM tweeter model designation is quite a bit more telling than MA's...
l've only encountered the same glass fibre reinforced plastic face plates, same as on the MF ones.
One notable distinction between these MA tweeters and the MF MC-2 Mk1 and MC-4 Mk1 ones is that the latter were drilled through the centre pole piece with a rear wave damping chamber affixed behind the magnet.
MF's OEM tweeter model designation is quite a bit more telling than MA's...
25TAFC/G-MF
25mm, Tweeter, Aluminium, Ferro-fluid, Chamber, Grille, MF OEM
I own 2 pairs of MF MC2 speakers (they sit in the loft, must get round to selling them) and the tweeters are different on the early and later models.
The early models, designed I believe by Martin Collums (hence the MC), used Elac(?) metal dome tweeters. The later models used the SEAS metal dome 25TAFC/G-MF tweeter.
It would be interesting to know if Martin Collums had anything to do with the later version. I prefered the sound of the originals.
Craig B
Re:trophile
Yes, the Elac tweeters were easy to spot; no MF branding on the faceplate, and the 4 faceplate mounting screws positioned much closer to the dome.
If Google images are anything to go by, there appears to have been a lot more MC-2 and MC-4 with the Seas unit. I do recall the early reviews mentioning Elac ones, though.
Of course, then there is the other MC2, with its two large forward facing ports;
I'd be very disappointed to hear that Martin Colloms had so much as touched these with a barge pole...
If Google images are anything to go by, there appears to have been a lot more MC-2 and MC-4 with the Seas unit. I do recall the early reviews mentioning Elac ones, though.
Of course, then there is the other MC2, with its two large forward facing ports;
I'd be very disappointed to hear that Martin Colloms had so much as touched these with a barge pole...
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Well that got me thinking, so I found a screw driver.. Here's the Tweeter on my Monitor Audio R852/MD speakers. Two main findings :-
1. Face Plate - Feels like textured metal when in place - but isn't it is a ceramic type dense plastic - so like you said "glass fibre reinforced plastic".
2. The rear of the tweeter - yes has a extra chamber - didn't appear to be removable.
Took a photo...sorry it's a bit fuzzy needed 3 hands...
Craig B
Re:trophile
BTW, you can certainly tell that Robin Marshall had some influence over the design of the R852MD.
Some clean shots of the rather minimalist crossovers:
https://1drv.ms/u/s!AkeFH630HNzGgeRGfqPPf5ypclF7wA
https://1drv.ms/u/s!AkeFH630HNzGgeRHgUPtEkgEJEgjuw
Some clean shots of the rather minimalist crossovers:
https://1drv.ms/u/s!AkeFH630HNzGgeRGfqPPf5ypclF7wA
https://1drv.ms/u/s!AkeFH630HNzGgeRHgUPtEkgEJEgjuw
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Thanks for taking the time to do this, Simon (although your photo didn't appear).
Does your tweeter appear to be just like this one (perhaps with a different label)?
Yes, sorry about the photo.. got involved trying to find a free hosting service... Any way yes it's just like the above. Same face plate, same label & Text (except I have no serial number), even the leads are the same colour.
Simon
Hazelberry
sister
I would have expected an air core inductor there, not solid core.
Craig B
Re:trophile
Perhaps the designer choose a ferrite core to better reduce microphony which might modulate the inductance. It is in series with the bass/mid, so any inherent HF loss from an iron core should be irrelevant, welcome even.I would have expected an air core inductor there, not solid core.
Reviving an old thread here. I am new here and so glad I finally found a discussion on the MA series speakers. I have a pair of MA700 and want to upgrade the crossover in the speaker.
I intend to replace it with some pre assembled crossover @3500Hz or 4500Hz. Original MA700 crossover @3900Hz
I would like to check which of these 2 crossover suits better with the MA700 or should I just replace the existing components on my current crossover? Personally I feel the current crossover design seems too simple.
I intend to replace it with some pre assembled crossover @3500Hz or 4500Hz. Original MA700 crossover @3900Hz
I would like to check which of these 2 crossover suits better with the MA700 or should I just replace the existing components on my current crossover? Personally I feel the current crossover design seems too simple.
Craig B
Re:trophile
I recall really liking the MA700 when I heard them. Coincidentally, a sales rep was in demoing the Well Tempered turntable that same day and the experience was quite memorable.
Often, with 2-way designs the simpler the crossover the better, that is, as long as the drivers are well behaved leading up to the chosen crossover point. And, you can't get much simpler than a 1st-order, 2-way.
As to crossover components, Monitor Audio were using decent parts at the time; in the 2-way models a polyester film cap in series with the tweeter (plus a resistor to level match with the bass/mid), and an iron core inductor in series with the bass/mid driver. BTW, the cap on this (and most other MA 2-way models) is 3.3uF which loosely jives with a solen split type. Interestingly, Monitor Audio went so far as to put their own branding on these caps, although they may have used a black printed clear sticky label rather than having them factory screened.
Anyway, I'd avoid pre-assembled crossovers, as your chances of making a change for the better are next to nil. And changing out existing components isn't likely to better what is already a well designed great little speaker. If you generally like what these do, I'd suggest looking elsewhere to make system improvements.
Often, with 2-way designs the simpler the crossover the better, that is, as long as the drivers are well behaved leading up to the chosen crossover point. And, you can't get much simpler than a 1st-order, 2-way.
As to crossover components, Monitor Audio were using decent parts at the time; in the 2-way models a polyester film cap in series with the tweeter (plus a resistor to level match with the bass/mid), and an iron core inductor in series with the bass/mid driver. BTW, the cap on this (and most other MA 2-way models) is 3.3uF which loosely jives with a solen split type. Interestingly, Monitor Audio went so far as to put their own branding on these caps, although they may have used a black printed clear sticky label rather than having them factory screened.
Anyway, I'd avoid pre-assembled crossovers, as your chances of making a change for the better are next to nil. And changing out existing components isn't likely to better what is already a well designed great little speaker. If you generally like what these do, I'd suggest looking elsewhere to make system improvements.
Appreciate the detail reply. I have owned the MA700 for the past 20 years and have liked the sound all along. Recently got a old B&W 601, upon comparing I find the high on the B&W sounded a bit harsh but it is clearer and has more details than the MA700. So I swapped out the caps in the B&W to the better film caps, the high becomes less harsh and the details are enhanced. The B&W crossover consists of 2 cps, 2 inductors and a resistor, so I am wondering if getting a similar pre assembled crossover as those in the B&W at the same crossover frequency, will that improve the MA700 (better clarity and details) with a newer crossover design compared to something designed 20 years ago? Or not much difference due to the design or constrain of the drivers?
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Craig B
Re:trophile
IME, with their standard 'consumer' series at least, B&W have been doing the next shelf up tweeter level thing since they first started incorporating metal dome tweeters in the 500 series. Treble clarity and details may be impressive, especially so, in a showroom direct comparison demo, however, as with factory amped up television colour and contrast, it's all somewhat OTT in use. Not all B&W models, mind, but it has been an observable trend with their lower end models to these ears. I had a pair of B&W DM560 for a while, purchased deaf, direct from the distributor whist still connected to the industry. If ever there was a model that needed a bigger resistor (not different capacitor type or value, mind), those were it. One dead giveaway is that, as you turn the volume control slowly down to minimum, the treble is still quite audible right to the end.
With 2 x capacitor, 2 x inductor, plus resistor, your 601 have what is known as a 2nd-order crossover, with steeper -12dB per octave slopes on both the low pass (bass/mid) and high pass (tweeter) sides than the 1st-order crossover within your MA700. One type isn't necessarily better than the other, it's more about driver integration, bass/mid driver bandwidth, breakup modes/frequencies, tweeter bandwidth/power handling, and also down to simple designer preference. As these are passive filters, the phase relationships between the filtered drivers also become out of sync, necessitating correction(s) be made. Your B&Ws will have their tweeters wired out of phase with the bass/mid units, for example, to counter a 180º electrical phase shift between them.
Anyway, the bottom line here is that if one intends to reinvent the wheel, one need know a lot about the subject, and even then experience counts as much, or more, than do the maths.
To put it strictly from the perspective of personal experience; I know that I could happily enjoy listening to your B&W 601 at a someone's party, whereas, with the MA700, I could happily enjoy listening for a lifetime at home.
With 2 x capacitor, 2 x inductor, plus resistor, your 601 have what is known as a 2nd-order crossover, with steeper -12dB per octave slopes on both the low pass (bass/mid) and high pass (tweeter) sides than the 1st-order crossover within your MA700. One type isn't necessarily better than the other, it's more about driver integration, bass/mid driver bandwidth, breakup modes/frequencies, tweeter bandwidth/power handling, and also down to simple designer preference. As these are passive filters, the phase relationships between the filtered drivers also become out of sync, necessitating correction(s) be made. Your B&Ws will have their tweeters wired out of phase with the bass/mid units, for example, to counter a 180º electrical phase shift between them.
Anyway, the bottom line here is that if one intends to reinvent the wheel, one need know a lot about the subject, and even then experience counts as much, or more, than do the maths.
To put it strictly from the perspective of personal experience; I know that I could happily enjoy listening to your B&W 601 at a someone's party, whereas, with the MA700, I could happily enjoy listening for a lifetime at home.
Michael Kelly
Member
Hi all, Im hoping to get some info about an attic find my friend just made. Its a pair of Monitor Audio 3-way from the eighties. There was a date on one of the woofers that has the year 1980 on it. The label says they are "Monitor Audio MA20 1003" but after hours of searching forums and images I have not been able to locate any info regarding this model. The reason for posting here is that they suffering major foam rot on the mids and Im trying to track down a supplier of suitable surrounds. I have not got any photos and will upload some when I do, but for now will have to try to describe them - The closest thing Ive seen to the woofer are the woofers Monitor Audio used in MA 4,5,6,18. The mids are in the same squarish shaped baskets(8ohm 0103 stamped on magnet) and have a diameter of 57mm cone and 80mm to the outside of where the surround used to be. The tweeters are on a square flat plate. Hopefully someone out there will be able to shed some light on these.
Michael Kelly
Member
Hi,Thanks for taking the time to reply, I have a pair of ma2 but its not them.. its a 70s80s bookshelf.. about the height of mordaunt short pageants but a bit deeper. I will get pics up as soon as I can. p.s the woofer surrounds are rubber with an inverted roll.(same as the ones on ma 4,5,6,18The only 3-way MA model that I recall as having a foam surround on the mid-range (and bass) driver was MA2 from the 1970s.
