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Monarchy and Royalty

Discussion in 'off topic' started by Mullardman, Apr 10, 2021.

  1. Mullardman

    Mullardman Moderately extreme...

    I do not wish to sully the Prince Philip RIP thread with this. As far as I'm concerned the bloke was a product of his times and circumstances. I neither liked nor disliked him.. but he does seem to have stuck to the job he signed up for and if the Dof E Award was his only legacy.. he made his mark.
    But.. I digress...

    Our Monarchy is basically an institution which has been incorporated into the mechanism of 'The State'. The Monarchy currently exists by the consent of Parliament and the people. Yet in a curious way, each lends legitimacy to the other. It is what it is. I recognise its usefulness as a 'marketing' tool for the UK, and also as a sort of more or less politically neutral focus for the population when needed.

    Royalty, on the other hand..is frankly an absurd concept...which gives present day 'royals' some sort of legitimacy... in the eyes of those who accept the bluff.

    Those individuals who are deemed 'royal' by dint of their family history and descent, are essentially the descendents of people who acquired and maintained power and ascendency through military force, skulduggery, murder, intrigue, incest, and worse. There is no 'direct' line of 'royal' descent..and several times throughout our history.. different people/families have gained ascendency through conflict, convenient marriages, murder...or even invitation... etc...

    'Royalty' ceased to have any meaning once democracy was established in the UK.. not that it had any real meaning beforehand other than some bizarre belief in 'divine right' etc. Royalty was replaced by 'The Monarchy'

    Are those above qualities ones we should really be using to elevate human beings to some sort of status which places them above the masses, requires 'cap doffing' etc?

    Pushing the point a bit I know.. but just for effect... Putin is a man who has maintained power in Russia by disposing of his enemies..or silencing them through fear. In what way is he different to Henry VIII? OK..as far as I know he doesn't invoke 'God' as his legitimator.. but in modern times Fear of God is not needed.. fear of the man is enough..

    Same could be applied to China, North Korea, numerous Gulf/Arab states.

    Royalty is a sham. Discuss.
     
    John_73, poppop, Dan K and 14 others like this.
  2. miktec

    miktec unissued

    Yes

    ... and frankly I can't even be arsed to give the topic any more airtime than that
     
  3. Somafunk

    Somafunk pfm Member

    Yep, an absolutely absurd institution that has zero relevance in today’s progressive society, the only possible reason for its existence is to maintain a figurehead that props up an out of touch ruling class.
     
  4. Somafunk

    Somafunk pfm Member

  5. FireMoon

    FireMoon pfm Member

    Part of the reason the current mob had so much trouble assimilating Diana was becasue, in reality, Diana had a far better claim to the throne, via bloodlines, than any of the present incumbents.

    I'm not pro monarchy at all and that was concreted for me when Bertha wholly failed to do the right thing and dismiss Johnson for breaking the law. At that point Bertha, by her inaction, made them utterly irrelevant to a modern democracy. It's every politics students first essay. "Does the UK need a written constitution, discuss". This past decade have seen every last check and balance that supposedly existed within the "naturally evolving unwritten constitution", ripped up and peed on by the Tories and the monarch has sat there on their billion dollar backside and done, diddly squat.
     
    ff1d1l likes this.
  6. Yank

    Yank Bulbous Also Tapered

    Does the "Divine Right" still exist?
     
  7. cjarchez

    cjarchez pfm Member

    Once the old guard have shuffled off, quite soon as most are of very advanced years, how long do you think the new brat pack will last?
    A combination of embarrassing actions caught by the paparazzi, a lack of ability to display the "royal graces" and their own anti royal duties/expectations attitudes, will surely hit hard on existing public acceptance, state service and general justification.
    Out with the popcorn...
     
  8. Nic Robinson

    Nic Robinson Moderator

    Absolutely this.
     
  9. Dogberry

    Dogberry pfm Member

    Patrons and protectors of wildlife.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]



    [​IMG]
     
    vince rocker likes this.
  10. MikeMA

    MikeMA pfm Member

    Well, "dieu etc mon droit" is still the motto of the monarch of the United Kingdom. It seems to me a better question might be, does anyone believe it any more?
     
  11. Dogberry

    Dogberry pfm Member

    Of course they believe it ,she was anointed at the
    coronation, her touch still cures scrofula.
     
    MikeMA likes this.
  12. chartz

    chartz If it’s broke fix it!

    Honni soit qui mal y pense, my British friends.

    :D

    Tourists from all over the world want your monarchy to continue, that’s the reason it does, even though it’s an anachronism.
     
    MikeMA likes this.
  13. Dogberry

    Dogberry pfm Member


    I wouldn't crow too loudly your taxes paid their EU
    farm subsidies.
     
    Snufkin likes this.
  14. ks.234

    ks.234 pfm Member

    A divinely inspired hierarchical society is incompatible with equality
     
  15. droodzilla

    droodzilla pfm Member

    Yes. For old Etonians.
     
    k90tour, narabdela and ks.234 like this.
  16. Bananahead

    Bananahead pfm Member

    The French had the right idea and it doesn't seem to have harmed their tourist industry.
     
  17. Andrew C!

    Andrew C! Been around a while....

    'Royalty is a sham - discuss?' I'm not sure you'll get anyone posting to the contrary on this thread.
     
    JonR and Rockmeister like this.
  18. PsB

    PsB Citizen of Nowhere™

    Although the château in Versailles gets 5 times the number of visitors (8 million) that Windsor Palace gets, not to mention Buck House which is not really open to Joe Public. So tourism does not strike me as a good enough reason to maintain an obsolete institution.
     
    najb likes this.
  19. SteveS1

    SteveS1 I heard that, pardon?

    I used to be against the idea of a monarchy, now I really have no view. I don't underestimate our capacity to replace it with something far worse. There is a very large part of the population who actually seem to find it comforting to be ruled over. Across the world dictators tend to be the most popular leaders for what I can only assume are similar reasons.

    Leaders of genuinely consensual or inclusive coalitions can only dream of such appreciation.
     
    Last edited: Apr 10, 2021
    Deejay, Woodface, zeon and 1 other person like this.
  20. MikeMA

    MikeMA pfm Member

    I'm instinctively a republican, at least I think I am, but I have often pondered what a "Republic of the United Kingdom" might be like, how we would actually get there without war or revolution, and how we would decide important constitutional issues like who would be Head of State, how would they be elected, would they have executive powers or would they be mere figureheads replacing the monarch, with their role heavily circumcised by law, custom and practice? What about the continuing role of the Prime Minister? Might it just be easier to leave things as they are?
     
    Deejay likes this.

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