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Momentum in Stafford - 28th July.

Seeker_UK said:
It's very hard to find an official position from Momentum on the EU. You know more about it and I'm genuinely interested to know what's really going on.

[edit]

Of course, if neither of us know then we'll be stuck in a constant loop of me making an assessment based on what's out there and you gainsaying without providing stronger evidence.

If that's the case, let's stop now, I wouldn't want to fall out over it.
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I think the position is...this is a tory creation, and if they - the tories - want to test it to destruction, then all activity associated with it will be toxic, retrospectively when the fan/faeces interface occurs. As it must surely do - anyone with the slightest political nous must see this. So why not stand well clear?

As I said, Momentum is a grassroots up organisation, with a high proportion of young members, who, statistically are not brexit favouring. There may be a higher proportion of non EU devotees in the higher echelons, or there may not (whether there is or not, the degree of control they exert is arguable - this is, remember, a grassroots organisation).

You certainly haven't, to my mind, put a convincing case which supports the view you were espousing/defending - your links IMV just didn't support what you said. I don't need to provide stronger evidence, firstly because you took it upon yourself to defend the Momentum/brexit claim, and therefore it falls upon you to support this assertion with something like credible evidence, and secondly what refutation I needed was contained within your own linked quote. "Whats out there" seemed not to be to hand, did it?

Anyway, I'm fine with dropping it - not conceding in any way, but dropping it.
 
monkfish said:
More fine work from Momentum.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-42870086
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This was the Labour Councillors comments on going:-

She added: "The sexism, bullying, undemocratic behaviour, and outright personal attacks on me, as the most senior woman in Labour local government, has left me disappointed and disillusioned.
"My commitment to democratic socialism and progressive politics is stronger than ever, but I have never been so concerned about the future of the Labour Party and the impact that this will have on people's lives."
 
flatpopely said:
This was the Labour Councillors comments on going:-

She added: "The sexism, bullying, undemocratic behaviour, and outright personal attacks on me, as the most senior woman in Labour local government, has left me disappointed and disillusioned.
"My commitment to democratic socialism and progressive politics is stronger than ever, but I have never been so concerned about the future of the Labour Party and the impact that this will have on people's lives."
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Indeed: her commitment to democratic socialism was so great that she was prepared to stand up to locals, party members, her own councillors, local MPS and the NEC in order to ensure that property developers Lendlease got their deal. It's a shame she's leaving politics but I'm sure there'll be a job for her somewhere, perhaps even in property development.

Thread here from Aditya Chakrabortty, for context:

https://twitter.com/chakrabortty/status/958308032055783427
 
Seanm said:
Indeed: her commitment to democratic socialism was so great that she was prepared to stand up to locals, party members, her own councillors, local MPS and the NEC in order to ensure that property developers Lendlease got their deal. It's a shame she's leaving politics but I'm sure there'll be a job for her somewhere, perhaps even in property development.

Thread here from Aditya Chakrabortty, for context:

https://twitter.com/chakrabortty/status/958308032055783427
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Means justify the end I suppose then, sexism and bullying don't matter as long as those opposed to her got their way?
 
Has she presented any hard evidence of this “bullying, sexism” etc? It seems to be a default attack strategy and a very easy target given the right-wing media’s insistence on aligning a handful of anonymous Twitter gobshites with internal Labour party democratic structures. IIRC Angela Eagle actually got a friend to throw a brick at her office in order to play the victim card!

PS I believe any such behaviour should be prosecuted and if found to be from a member they should be expelled. A zero tolerance position. I feel the same way about Tory trough-feeding, lobbying, blatant corruption and insider-dealing that is the very backbone of that vile party.
 
See the previous Angela Eagle post.

In short, no they don't. Momentum do have some very outspoken members. But in every case I've seen they've stepped on anything unsavoury very quickly, despite the best efforts of a largely right wing media to whip up a frenzy.

I'm with Tony, there's no excuse for bad behaviour and anyone on either side of the party caught lying, making stuff up, should be binned out.
 
sq225917 said:
See the previous Angela Eagle post.

In short, no they don't. Momentum do have some very outspoken members. But in every case I've seen they've stepped on anything unsavoury very quickly, despite the best efforts of a largely right wing media to whip up a frenzy.

I'm with Tony, there's no excuse for bad behaviour and anyone on either side of the party caught lying, making stuff up, should be binned out.
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The internet does seem littered with accusations though - however I'm not as nuanced as many on here about such things so I'll accept perhaps it's a lot of 'smear' rather than substance.
I just cant get the 'mob' image of trade union meetings from the 70/80s using passive aggression to get their way out of my head.
 
Tony L said:
Has she presented any hard evidence of this “bullying, sexism” etc? It seems to be a default attack strategy and a very easy target given the right-wing media’s insistence on aligning a handful of anonymous Twitter gobshites with internal Labour party democratic structures. IIRC Angela Eagle actually got a friend to throw a brick at her office in order to play the victim card!

PS I believe any such behaviour should be prosecuted and if found to be from a member they should be expelled. A zero tolerance position. I feel the same way about Tory trough-feeding, lobbying, blatant corruption and insider-dealing that is the very backbone of that vile party.
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Of course she hasn't presented a shred of proof. We had the ridiculous situation where Blairite councillors were "furious" for not being allowed to circumvent the rules over the development and were accusing people of "outrageous behaviour" for demanding that the correct procedures were adhered to. Apparently, insisting on sticking to the proper procedures is considered "bullying".
 
flatpopely said:
I'm no fan of JC or Momentum, so yes you are correct.
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I know.

Re K C...

"She added: "The sexism, bullying, undemocratic behaviour, and outright personal attacks on me, as the most senior woman in Labour local government, has left me disappointed and disillusioned.

"My commitment to democratic socialism and progressive politics is stronger than ever, but I have never been so concerned about the future of the Labour Party and the impact that this will have on people's lives."

I smell flounce.
 
flatpopely said:
The internet does seem littered with accusations though - however I'm not as nuanced as many on here about such things so I'll accept perhaps it's a lot of 'smear' rather than substance.
I just cant get the 'mob' image of trade union meetings from the 70/80s using passive aggression to get their way out of my head.
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Littered with accusations? Can you remember the substance of any of them that don't seem as stupid as the recently evicted corporate whore for LendLease? I suspect not. perhaps you've fallen under the spell of the 'throw enough mud around' media barons?

The situation in the 70's 80's was bad. Fortunately we've no unionised heavy industry to speak of, so nothing to worry about in that dept. You're not expecting your staff to rise up and stage a coup are you Andrew? ;-)
 
Still said:
They've taken over the NEC in Birmingham.
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We Young Conservatives are standing firm against this Bolshevist red tide- just as soon as we’ve finished the production run of our best selling “HANG LEN McCLUSKEY” T-shirts, we’ll be giving our HANDS OFF OUR CRUFTS!!! Item away free with coupons in the Daily Anal.
 
Let us not forget the Federation of Conservative Students‘ catchy ‘Hang Nelson Mandela’ t-shirts. Nothing Momentum could ever do could possibly be as wrong-headed and downright offensive as that. Some from that privileged far-right group still exist in the HoC and Lords to this day.
 
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