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Momentum in Stafford - 28th July.

When papers talk about “sources in the Labour Party” they usually mean Richard Angell and his cronies in Progress. They are a well organised, well-funded (until recently :)) network of right wing activists who have maintained a tight grip of the party machinery since Blair’s time, using it to strangle grassroots participation and centralise power. They have an absolute horror of democracy and transparency and it would be galling to hear them bang on about purges and Stalinism if it weren’t for the fact that they are relics: they've completely lost control and the party is now something more than a shady patronage network with an army of (despised) canvassers attached. This is a wholly positive development if you like democracy and anyone who takes 2 minutes to think through the Newspeak of Angell's journo mates will realise that there is absolutely nothing scary about it.
 
Momentum has complete control of the Labour Party and they (Momentum) are in favour of Brexit so that would explain why Labour don't have much to say about it (Brexit).
 
Momentum has complete control of the Labour Party and they (Momentum) are in favour of Brexit so that would explain why Labour don't have much to say about it (Brexit).

You could say Momentum has made progress, but Progress hasn't gained momentum.
 
Momentum has complete control of the Labour Party and they (Momentum) are in favour of Brexit so that would explain why Labour don't have much to say about it (Brexit).

Momentum may have gained the balance of power in labour's NEC, but not "complete control" of the party.
 
The way the DM and Wapping are portraying it, you’d think John McDonnel was Comrade Beria and had already had Chuka Umunna and Stephen Kinnock taken out and shot.
 
Grounds? Momentum largely a young peoples movement, the young are statistically not pro brexit, so this is boll....er...unlikely.

Momentum is controlled by its leadership who managed to remove any meaningful discussion of Brexit from the last party conference. The people at the top of Momentum don't like the EU over much - something about it being a caucus for increasing capitalist exploitation etc etc.
 
Momentum is controlled by its leadership who managed to remove any meaningful discussion of Brexit from the last party conference. The people at the top of Momentum don't like the EU over much - something about it being a caucus for increasing capitalist exploitation etc etc.

Do you have any citation for this? If true it is highly disappointing. My main criticism of the Labour Party at present is a lack of coherent direction let alone logical opposition to the Tory Brexit fiasco. If Momentum are hindering sensible voices of opposition here then they need fighting.
 
Momentum is controlled by its leadership who managed to remove any meaningful discussion of Brexit from the last party conference. The people at the top of Momentum don't like the EU over much - something about it being a caucus for increasing capitalist exploitation etc etc.

AIUI, Momentum went fully behind 'Another Europe is Possible' a movement to renegotiate the relationship with Europe to remove the anti-TU bits. Perhaps this was an attempt to bridge the internal conflict arising from it's core membership (young voters) who wanted to remain and its founder (a Bennite) and leader it supports hate the EU . Then, after the referendum, no more was said and debate was kept off the agenda, even at the party conference (https://www.newstatesman.com/politi...ision-not-debate-brexit-shows-momentums-power).

ISTM it's not being discussed because the last thing they want to present is a fracture at grass roots level to go along with the ones at the party level.
 
AIUI, Momentum went fully behind 'Another Europe is Possible' a movement to renegotiate the relationship with Europe to remove the anti-TU bits. Perhaps this was an attempt to bridge the internal conflict arising from it's core membership (young voters) who wanted to remain and its founder (a Bennite) and leader it supports hate the EU . Then, after the referendum, no more was said and debate was kept off the agenda, even at the party conference (https://www.newstatesman.com/politi...ision-not-debate-brexit-shows-momentums-power).

ISTM it's not being discussed because the last thing they want to present is a fracture at grass roots level to go along with the ones at the party level.
Credible backup?
 
Do you have any citation for this? If true it is highly disappointing. My main criticism of the Labour Party at present is a lack of coherent direction let alone logical opposition to the Tory Brexit fiasco. If Momentum are hindering sensible voices of opposition here then they need fighting.

It’s balls.
 
I'd assume you had it for all of it.

I'll see what I can do...

"Momentum went fully behind 'Another Europe is Possible' a movement to renegotiate the relationship with Europe to remove the anti-TU bits. "

https://www.anothereurope.org/who-we-are/

After the bitter disappointment of the referendum result we are continuing our campaign to defend the six progressive elements of EU membership. We identify those as workers’ rights, environmental sustainability, the free movement of people, human rights, science and research funding and transnational innovation.

Organising group - Michael Chessum, Momentum [list goes on with of others...]

One of the leading lights in Momentum formed that group.


"Perhaps this was an attempt to bridge the internal conflict arising from it's core membership (young voters) who wanted to remain and its founder (a Bennite) and leader it supports hate the EU."

Jon Lansman formed Momentum (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jon_Lansman) and he is a supporter of Corbyn and was a supporter of Benn. Both have a history of being anti EU - whilst possible, it is unlikely that someone who supported both has a different view on the EU. Unless of course Jeremy Corbyn had a Damascene moment and realised that he'd been wrong about the EU for 40 years and wishes UK was remaining in it.



"Then, after the referendum, no more was said and debate was kept off the agenda, even at the party conference."
(https://www.newstatesman.com/politi...ision-not-debate-brexit-shows-momentums-power).

https://www.theguardian.com/politic...-stopped-vote-single-market-labour-conference

I will hold my hands up to this one as speculation beyond the conference. Not being a member of either the Labout Party or momentum and able to sit in all of their branch meetings, I do not know what the current debate, if any, on the EU is in the party. Whatever it is though, it is not permeating out into the PLP where their view on Brexit remains confused beyond a core message of 'A Tory Brexit is bad'.



"ISTM it's not being discussed because the last thing they want to present is a fracture at grass roots level to go along with the ones at the party level."

Somewhere, between Momentum and the Labour leadership or within Momentum itself, there is almost certainly a difference of opinion on the EU. This is not news, factionalism (especially remain / leave) exists in all parties and the ones who win elections are the ones that can keep it in check. At the moment, Labour / Momentum are able to do that because they have their eyes on the prize and a firm leadership.
 
I'll see what I can do...

"Momentum went fully behind 'Another Europe is Possible' a movement to renegotiate the relationship with Europe to remove the anti-TU bits. "

https://www.anothereurope.org/who-we-are/





One of the leading lights in Momentum formed that group.


"Perhaps this was an attempt to bridge the internal conflict arising from it's core membership (young voters) who wanted to remain and its founder (a Bennite) and leader it supports hate the EU."

Jon Lansman formed Momentum (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jon_Lansman) and he is a supporter of Corbyn and was a supporter of Benn. Both have a history of being anti EU - whilst possible, it is unlikely that someone who supported both has a different view on the EU. Unless of course Jeremy Corbyn had a Damascene moment and realised that he'd been wrong about the EU for 40 years and wishes UK was remaining in it.



"Then, after the referendum, no more was said and debate was kept off the agenda, even at the party conference."
(https://www.newstatesman.com/politi...ision-not-debate-brexit-shows-momentums-power).

https://www.theguardian.com/politic...-stopped-vote-single-market-labour-conference

I will hold my hands up to this one as speculation beyond the conference. Not being a member of either the Labout Party or momentum and able to sit in all of their branch meetings, I do not know what the current debate, if any, on the EU is in the party. Whatever it is though, it is not permeating out into the PLP where their view on Brexit remains confused beyond a core message of 'A Tory Brexit is bad'.



"ISTM it's not being discussed because the last thing they want to present is a fracture at grass roots level to go along with the ones at the party level."

Somewhere, between Momentum and the Labour leadership or within Momentum itself, there is almost certainly a difference of opinion on the EU. This is not news, factionalism (especially remain / leave) exists in all parties and the ones who win elections are the ones that can keep it in check. At the moment, Labour / Momentum are able to do that because they have their eyes on the prize and a firm leadership.
From the Another Europe page you linked to
"We come from across the spectrum of the progressive left, working across party political lines to campaign for democracy, human rights, and social justice.


After the bitter disappointment of the referendum result we are continuing our campaign to defend the six progressive elements of EU membership. We identify those as workers’ rights, environmental sustainability, the free movement of people, human rights, science and research funding and transnational innovation.


We are also fighting for democracy in the Brexit process. That means transparency in the negotiations, and ensuring that corporate interests do not run riot and take over. We are also arguing for a referendum on the terms of exit once they have been negotiated with Europe with an option to remain in the EU if the terms are rejected. We respect the referendum result, but there is no popular mandate for any particular exit.
"

Bewildered by your extrapolated conclusions which seem to be without foundation.
 
Bewildered by your extrapolated conclusions which seem to be without foundation.

Momentum is comprised of a lot of pro-EU members. You'd expect it given that the majority members of Momentum are in the age bracket more likely to be pro-EU. This is supported by the paragraphs you quoted.

Jeremy Corbyn, who Momentum was formed to support was historically anti-EU; it is also likely that the founder of Momentum, given his association with Jeremy Corbyn and before that, Tony Benn was also anti-EU. Doesn't that put them at odds with Momentum? Like I say, I'm not part of Momentum or Labour so, as an external observer, I can't see it how such a divisive and toxic issue can't be a problem for Labour / Momentum,

Clearly, you know more about this than I do so, if there is evidence that Corbyn is now pro-EU and / or there is no EU rift please feel free to provide some evidence.
 
Momentum is comprised of a lot of pro-EU members. You'd expect it given that the majority members of Momentum are in the age bracket more likely to be pro-EU. This is supported by the paragraphs you quoted.

Jeremy Corbyn, who Momentum was formed to support was historically anti-EU; it is also likely that the founder of Momentum, given his association with Jeremy Corbyn and before that, Tony Benn was also anti-EU. Doesn't that put them at odds with Momentum? Like I say, I'm not part of Momentum or Labour so, as an external observer, I can't see it how such a divisive and toxic issue can't be a problem for Labour / Momentum,

Clearly, you know more about this than I do so, if there is evidence that Corbyn is now pro-EU and / or there is no EU rift please feel free to provide some evidence.
Let's not mission creep. The original assertion, which I questioned, was "they (Momentum) are in favour of Brexit". I don't think you've refuted this question, or produced anything in support of the assertion.
 
Let's not mission creep. The original assertion, which I questioned, was "they (Momentum) are in favour of Brexit". I don't think you've refuted this question, or produced anything in support of the assertion.

It's very hard to find an official position from Momentum on the EU. You know more about it and I'm genuinely interested to know what's really going on.

[edit]

Of course, if neither of us know then we'll be stuck in a constant loop of me making an assessment based on what's out there and you gainsaying without providing stronger evidence.

If that's the case, let's stop now, I wouldn't want to fall out over it.
 


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