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Mike's speaker thread

The greatest difference of a break-through kind was via replacing the inductors with copper foil ones. eg. CFN zero ohm style 6,8mH on the woofer, air core ones for the smaller values.
Just a note of caution for the OP. Series inductors for low pass filters have both inductance and DC resistance. The former dictate roll-off, the latter affect electrical damping. In general, lower DCR reduces Qes, which makes for leaner bass.
 
If the Clarity cap on your woofer is foil, then keep it.

Hi Achim,

IIRC, ClarityCap are metalized polypropylene rather than film/foil but they use a much thicker layer of aluminium deposit than typically found in lower quality metalized capacitors.

Anyway, the capacitor on the woofer is 68uF and a film/foil would be to physically too large to be practical.
 
Like sticking thin amounts of foam/felt on walls, using a port on a midrange chamber is something audiophile enthusiasts might do while those with a more technical background won't. By adding a lot of stuffing to the chamber (which is needed because the chamber is big introducing low frequency internal modes that need to be damped) it will suppress most of the port resonance. Plugging the port would make sure.

If you want to keep the port resonance then you will have to experiment with introducing enough damping in the centre to adequately reduce the lowest cabinet modes while not too much to reduce the port resonance. I would suggest the sensible starting point is lots of stuffing like it is at present.

In light of the above comments from h.g. I'm very tempted to remove the port permanently (i.e. remove the tube and plug the hole with a disc of MDF glued in place and a skim of filler to make it invisible). If I'm not going to be using the port this would be my preference.

If I'm going to do this, I want to do it now before I repaint the cabinets.

For whatever reason the speakers were designed with a port so I'm a little apprehensive about taking it out. Having said that, they sounded great before I took them apart and there was so much stuffing in the upper chamber the port was likely having little or no effect anyway which supports what h.g. is saying.

The other option is to leave the port in and then I can experiment with different amounts of fill to see what's best. I'll still have the option to simply plug the port up completely with a bung if I want to negate the port resonance totally.

If anyone has some wisdom to share on this I'd like to hear it before I dig my hole saw and MDF off-cuts out.
 
That driver should work well either sealed or ported but you are right the designer will have done it that way for a reason. Perhaps build it as specified with the right amount of damping in the right places and see how you feel afterwards.

Stefan
 
In
If anyone has some wisdom to share on this I'd like to hear it before I dig my hole saw and MDF off-cuts out.
Just to reiterate what I mentioned ealier. A working port will change the response and the crossover may have been designed accordingly. Then again it might not if the port is tuned well below the midrange rolloff and there is no fiddling for impedance bumps. Without measurements or a design document based around measurements we are struggling a bit. One could answer it with a simulation but that would require effort by someone who knows what they are doing (or who wants to learn?).

My recommendation would be to leave the port and only plug it in a reversible way until you have a better idea of what is going on from experiments with stuffing, measurements or simulations. Preferably all three.
 
That driver should work well either sealed or ported but you are right the designer will have done it that way for a reason. Perhaps build it as specified with the right amount of damping in the right places and see how you feel afterwards.

My recommendation would be to leave the port and only plug it in a reversible way until you have a better idea of what is going on from experiments with stuffing, measurements or simulations. Preferably all three.

I think that's sensible and I'll leave the port in on the basis that it can always be plugged later.

The bitumen sheets arrived today so I'm going to start fitting those tonight.
 
The endless hours of scraping and rubbing down are now thankfully over!

I've chosen to use the 'peel and stick' veneer for simplicity which I've already ordered from The Wood Veneer Hub.

The final bit of preparation is to seal the porous MDF surface with a primer/sealer in order to guarantee a good bond from the pressure sensitive adhesive on the veneer.

I used this stuff which was recommended by the veneer supplier (see below). It dries almost as quickly as you can paint it on! The outside of the cabinets got two coats.

20171023_133754 by Michael Pickwell, on Flickr

The inside surfaces of the cabinets got two coats of satin varnish as I had a open tin which needed using up. Sealing the porous MDF surface is necessary to help the bitumen sheets adhere properly.

In the pic above you can see the bitumen type 'deadsheet' which I'm using. They are self adhesive and measure 20cm x 15cm and 2mm thick. So far I've put ten sheets into the first speaker and I may add a few more.

20171022_172741 by Michael Pickwell, on Flickr
 
Hi folks,

I apologise for the lack of updates but the speakers are now finished.

Spot the difference...

20171127_090717 by Michael Pickwell, on Flickr

The veneer:
I got my veneer from The Wood Veneer Hub and I chose to use the 'Peel and Stick' veneer because it is available in single pieces that are large enough to cover one complete side of a speaker without having to make a join, thus making the job quite a bit simpler. If anyone is interested in hearing about the job in more detail please just ask.
Although I ordered quite a few different veneer samples I ended up choosing white European oak again as I couldn't find anything I preferred.

The cabinets:
The front of the cabinets got repainted with satin black spray paint and now looks much smarter. As ever with painting it's all about the surface preparation and I spent many hours rubbing back to get the surface super smooth and free of imperfections. Each speaker probably got about ten coats of paint. I used isopon car body filler to fill in any surface defects.
The existing spikes were removed and the holes filled with wooden dowels glued in and cut off flush once the glued had dried. I then set about building the new bases which are made from two layers of 25mm MDF glued and screwed together. These are then glued and screwed to the bottom of the cabinets. The bases house four M8 threaded spikes which screw into threaded inserts. The new wider bases make the speakers much more stable.

The lower chamber of the cabinets got new profiled acoustic foam. I used 60mm for the ceiling and transmission line labyrinth and then thinner 40mm foam for the two side walls. As previously mentioned the cabinet walls first had a bunch of 2mm bitumen 'deadsheet' applied to help damp any cabinet resonances. The foam was glued in with aerosol impact adhesive.

20171023_133820 by Michael Pickwell, on Flickr

The upper chamber also got the bitumen deadsheet treatment and then was filled with fibreglass loft insulation stuffing. Following the earlier advice from h.g. I completely filled the chamber with stuffing (about 300g per side).
20171110_120756 by Michael Pickwell, on Flickr

Grilles:
Previously the grilles had been held on with self adhesive Velcro strip which was very unsightly when the grilles were off. Because I like to listen without the grilles off I wanted to come up with a neater solution.
The grilles are now held in place with l neodymium magnets. There are four magnets glued onto the back of each grilles with two-part epoxy adhesive and there are four more corresponding magnets secretly hidden in the front baffle of the cabinets. On the front baffle I first drilled small holes in which the magnets were glued. The holes were then filled with body filler and then painted over to make them invisible. I'm very pleased with this system, it works brilliantly.

20171031_114921 by Michael Pickwell, on Flickr

20171127_090802 by Michael Pickwell, on Flickr

Crossovers:
The crossovers are now external and housed in their own separate wooden boxes. The boxes are pine and have been darkened with coloured Danish oil to colour match the rest of the furniture in the room. I couldn't resist wasting my money on a few boutique components while I was at it so you'll now see some new fancy caps and resistors in there. The binding posts were an ebay bargain from China and cable came from an auto electrics supplier which I use and is a brilliant source for hook-up cable of any colour and gauge you might need.

20171127_090622 by Michael Pickwell, on Flickr

20171127_090328 by Michael Pickwell, on Flickr

Speaker binding post plates:
New 'tri-wire' binding post plates for the speakers were made from 6mm thick gloss black acrylic sheet. The same binding posts and cable was used as for the crossovers. Please ignore the dust on the photos.

20171127_090904 by Michael Pickwell, on Flickr

20171110_122450 by Michael Pickwell, on Flickr

20171110_124908 by Michael Pickwell, on Flickr

Any questions just ask.

Thanks for the help.
 
they look sweet mike, well worth the considerable hours i would think. How do they sound now compared to when i heard them?
 
Thanks Phil,

The bass is now even more rock solid than before but the big surprise has been how much extra clarity has been gained at the top end.

I'd like to think they now also look as good as they deserve too. They were a bit scruffy before.
 
I got my veneer from The Wood Veneer Hub and I chose to use the 'Peel and Stick' veneer because it is available in single pieces that are large enough to cover one complete side of a speaker without having to make a join, thus making the job quite a bit simpler. If anyone is interested in hearing about the job in more detail please just ask.
Although I ordered quite a few different veneer samples I ended up choosing white European oak again as I couldn't find anything I preferred.

Mike - the cabinets look great - especially the black front. I really need to do something to my ancient Briks. If you have the time, I'd be keen to hear how you went about replacing the veneer - and also perhaps why you decided to do that as opposed to trying to refurb what was there ?
Thanks, Alan
 
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Time to passively tri amp... :)

BTW LOVE this thread, exactly sort of Hifi I Love

Is your Xover all hardwired to each other compenent? as opposed to going through the circuit board.
Other minor tip is to coat xover with some bitumen damping spray stuff.

Totally love this though - need some pics of how you veneered it
 
Mike - the cabinets look great - especially the black front. I really need to do something to my ancient Briks. If you have the time, I'd be keen to hear how you went about replacing the veneer - and also perhaps why you decided to do that as opposed to trying to refurb what was there ?
Thanks, Alan

Hi Alan,

Although the original veneer looked OK at a distance it was a bit scruffy and I felt it was letting the speakers down. The main issue with the old veneer is that it was bubbling and cracking in a few places and also the veneer at the base of the speakers looked like it had got damp at some point in the past. Overall I thought it wasn't going to be possible to simply refresh the veneer by doing something like rubbing it down with wire wool and Danish oil.

The veneer I used is this stuff: http://www.thewoodveneerhub.co.uk/wood-store/innovative-wood-veneers/peel-stick-veneer/

The main attraction for me is that it is available in sheets big enough to cover the whole side of a cabinet in one piece thereby avoiding the complication of having to make a perfect join. Annoyingly my cabinets are 110cm tall so I had to buy four whole sheets which worked out to be more expensive than I'd hoped.

With any veneer the surface preparation is paramount. It is vitally important that you start with a flat and completely smooth surface. Any surface imperfections with show through the final veneer. I now know that veneering a new surface with 'peel and stick' would be child's play compared to dealing with a old and worn surface!

My old veneer had been applied with impact adhesive. The old veneer scraped off easily enough but it left and horrible lumpy sticky mess behind (layer of old glue) which had to be removed. Initial attempts to sand it off proved futile as it just clogged the sand paper immediately. After a bit of experimentation I was able to remove the old glue by softening it with thinners and then scraping it off with a Stanley knife blade held perpendicular to the surface and drawn across the surface like a cabinet scraper. After I managed to remove all traces of the old glue any surface imperfections were filled with car body filler and the whole surface was given a light sanding with 180 grit paper.

The porous MDF surface then needed to be primed and sealed which I did by applying a couple of coats of the sealer recommended to me by the veneer supplier (see earlier in thread).

The peel and stick veneer comes ready coated in a pressure sensitive veneer. As the name suggests the bond is activated by pressure and the more pressure you apply the better the bond. A roller won't give you enough pressure and the correct tool for the job is a veneer hammer. I didn't want to buy and expensive veneer hammer just for one job so I made my own tool by putting a smooth polished edge on a cold chisel.

20171128_083543 by Michael Pickwell, on Flickr

20171128_083644 by Michael Pickwell, on Flickr

Start by choosing which pieces of veneer you want to go where and which orientation you want each piece to go in. My veneer came in two obvious pairs so I chose to make a mirror image.

Next cut the veneer to the approximate size leaving about 2cm extra around the edges. This exception to this is that I used the factory cut straight edge of the veneer against the front baffle as to save me having to trim this edge down later.

Before applying it the veneer should be allowed to rest and relax on a flat surface in the same environment (same temperature and humidity as the cabinets) for 24hrs.

The veneer should be applied from the centre out. Use your chosen applicator/scraper tool to smooth the veneer onto the surface pushing out air bubbles to the outside as you go. Apply FIRM pressure with the scraper tool to ensure a good bond and go over the entire piece several times.

Once you've applied the piece the excess needs to be trimmed. I first tried this with a sharp blade but eventually settled on trimming the excess off SLOWLY with a 32tpi hacksaw blade leaving just 1-2mm overhang. The final excess was then sanded away with 180 grit paper.

I had a few problems with bubbles developing under the veneer even up to several days after applying it. Some of this could be flattened back down just by passing over with the scraper again but some kept reoccurring. For the problem bubbles I went over them a warm iron followed by the scraper again which eventually did the trick.

Once I was happy with the application the veneer was given a very light final sanding (sand with the grain) with 320 grit paper. The veneer came ready sanded so only a very light final finish was needed just to remove a few marks imparted by the scraper tool.

The veneer adhesive was then allowed so cure for a few days before I gave the speakers a first very light coat of Danish oil. Several light coats are better than one heavy one and you should let the previous coat dry fully before applying the next. I applied three coats of Danish oil in total followed by a coat of good quality wax a few days later. Over the next few weeks I will apply another coat of wax or two.

I have quite a lot of veneer left over which I'll be happy to sell to a forum member at a bargain price. There's certainly sufficient for a medium sized pair of speakers.
 
Is your Xover all hardwired to each other compenent? as opposed to going through the circuit board.

Hi Joe, thanks for the kind compliments.

I'm not sure what you mean by this. The wires link each PCB to the binding posts (input from amp and output to drivers). The exception is that tweeter crossover PCB input connections are taken from the mid-range PCB.
 
Hi Joe, thanks for the kind compliments.

I'm not sure what you mean by this. The wires link each PCB to the binding posts (input from amp and output to drivers). The exception is that tweeter crossover PCB input connections are taken from the mid-range PCB.

Yer what I mean is, have you directly soldered the capacitors to the inductors to the resistors to the binding posts and instead of soldering each component to the printed circuit board as that can improve the sound potentially.
 
Mike - genuine thanks for that.

I've been tempted to take the wire-wool and Danish to the 'Briks a couple of times, but held off in case it was a disaster and I had no backup plan. Although a bit of a daunting prospect, it sounds like re-veneering is perhaps doable for a layman like me, if it all goes horribly astray. I think I'll risk breaking out the wire-wool and see what happens. Thanks again for the guide.
Alan
 


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