Microsoft Outlook 365, advice sought.

[eternumviti]

So lamentable is my comprehension of computer related issues that I'm not even sure how to frame my question.

I run Win 10 PCs in my office, upon which are loaded an archaic version of MS Office Pro, 2003!

Despite being 20 years old this software suits my needs. Or did. We receive and send emails using the Outlook in that 2003 package. A few years ago the POP3 protocols broke down, and we called upon the support of our ISP, BT, who put it back together. During this process we acquired an online version of Outlook known as 365, which might well have been there the whole time, and which seemed to be the source/destination of our native emails, the one connected to the other by the mysterious POP thingy.

A few weeks ago POP3 stopped working again, and although we could see and send emails via the online 365 version of Outlook, we could no longer do so on the native one. When, as before, I phoned BT, the told me that MS no longer supported Outlook and that we would have to move to a subscription version of Office, also called 365. They told me that they could administer this, that it would cost £20 odd a month, and that the 'migration' would cost me £150.

Now I don't trust BT further than I could throw them, so I looked online and found that you could by a one-off new version of MS Office for between 25 and 35 quid, licenced in perpetuity. However, I got the impression that I would actually still need to pay an annual licence if a new native version of outlook was to actually work. But there I've ground to a halt amidst talk of something referred to as email 'clients', and a general sense of utter confusion.

Can any pfmers take me (gently) by the hand?

 

[garyi]

OK, a number of things.

BT are a bunch of thieving scum.
Microsoft are so bloody confusing with their software of which there are multiple double ups so you are not alone.

Ultimately you can get a standalone version of Office, its called Office 21
Or you can get subscription, with is office 365.

As far as subs go this is one of the best on the market if you need word/excel etc. You get a TB of online storage and five others can share your licence.

Its 7 quid a month not twenty and BT in no way need to be involved.


This all being said, the time may well have come for you to migrate from POP to IMAP, and this does not need outlook, office or microsoft.



Question is what email is it, I presume, btinternet.com one?
Secondly and secondary to the problem, do you want to upgrade office?

 

[eternumviti]

Much as I suspected.

The email is a btinternet one. I hate using BT, but they host my website and I haven't got the mental capacity to start all over again.

I'm not particularly interested in upgrading office, though I feel that I probably should bring it at least a bit closer to the now.

 

[The Bish]

BT seem to still support POP3 as an email protocol according to their website here: https://www.bt.com/help/email/manag...gs-for-outgoing-and-incoming-bt-email-servers

So I wonder if for some reason they are just no longer supporting older versions of Outlook, which would be unusual as all versions can operate as a basic POP3 client. You could try installing a different email client like Thunderbird (https://www.thunderbird.net/en-US/) and connect it to your BT email POP3 account using the same settings you were using on Outlook. This would result in you using a different program for email but you could carry on using the Office 2003 stuff alongside it.

As another option and as suggested by Garyi above, you could also see if switching from POP3 to IMAP would work - I believe it should be a simple case of updating the settings in the outlook client to the settings outlined in the BT link above. Would be good to understand what BT support are saying is not supported and why.

All of these methods are quite old fashioned nowadays and less secure than using a fully managed office365 cloud environment, but if you are running a relatively low risk business that might not matter.

 

[Darth Vader]

First don't complicate matters!

Replace Microsoft Office with Libre Office a free office equivalent. Its completely as far as I have seen compatible with the Microsoft offering.

Next replace Outlook with Thunderbird Mail also free.

I have done this for many people that have over the years been locked into the Microsoft way of working and they are surprised that they can now work almost identically and for nowt!

The beauty of doing the above is you'll have a platform that will work in Windows, macOS and Linux and for free.

Don't get involved with BT helping as when they 'help' you may get things screwed. Also its not BTs problem that M$ has dropped support for older Outlook mail. If you use POP3 for mail then stick with what you already know. I still use POP3 mail with BT and Thunderbird no problem. My iPad also uses the same POP3 email accounts.

If you need to its possible to convert all your old Outlook mails to Thunderbird. I had to do this for my wife all 7 years of mail! also did this for my own Outlook mail going back more than 15 years!

DV

 

[garyi]

So by don't complicate matters you suggest totally changing the software he has been using since 2003 lol.

 

[Darth Vader]

So by don't complicate matters you suggest totally changing the software he has been using since 2003 lol.

Yes. That is what I have done for friends and family its also a one time move as I have pointed out above this new way is portable across all of todays computer platforms.

The beauty is that you can run Thunderbird and Libre Office in conjunction/parallel with your existing Outlook and Microsoft Office as there is no need to uninstall anything. Thats what I have on this 2010 Mac Mini - Microsoft Office Professional Plus 2019 together with Thunderbird and Libre Office.

Its a simple case of trying something new and if you don't like it just either uninstall it or roll Windows back to a restore point before the installation of Libre Office and Thunderbird. You'll not screw anything up.

DV

 

[eternumviti]

I'm taking all this in.

I see a problem in that I don't know my settings or how to change them, and I don't know my existing password.

Can I just clarify, an email 'client' is the programme (Outlook, Thunderbird etc) on your local computer?

As I said, I'm a numpty on this stuff. Clueless.

 

[Darth Vader]

I'm taking all this in.

I see a problem in that I don't know my settings or how to change them, and I don't know my existing password.

Can I just clarify, an email 'client' is the programme (Outlook, Thunderbird etc) on your local computer?

As I said, I'm a numpty on this stuff. Clueless.

Yes.

You can install Thunderbird and access your mail. This doesn't stop you using any other client such as a working 'Outlook'.

Next you'll need to obtain your email password from Outlook 2003. Have a look here Mail PassView: Password recovery for Outlook, Outlook Express, Thunderbird, Windows Mail, and more... (nirsoft.net)

DV

 

[Mike Hughes]

Yes, email client is just a fancy name for your email software i.e. Outlook.

Quick question. Windows 10. Do you do regular updates?

 

[eternumviti]

Yes, email client is just a fancy name for your email software i.e. Outlook.

Quick question. Windows 10. Do you do regular updates?

Ah, now that's another tale of woe. The answer is yes, but today's update left me with a screen that looked like the one you get when things go wrong and it's in limp mode, and the PC was very slow. I tried restarting, resetting the monitor etc, nothing, it wouldn't allow me to go back to the earlier version, so I went for Reset. 4 hours in, and it's been stuck at 68% for the past 3. I think I might have made a bad decision.

 

[gustavm]

What about network storage. Do you use that?

I use the storage that comes with Office 365, but would be interested in any good cheap alternatives. (I used Dropbox for a while, but encountered some well-known incompatibility problem with Windows 10, but for all I know, that may have been resolved now.)

 

[Craig B]

Yes, an email client is just a mail application. Essentially, you've been using two email clients, 1) your Microsoft Office Outlook 2003 application, and 2) the Office 365 online web version of Outlook (i.e. your web browser running a web application within).

Leaving client apps aside for a moment, with your having mentioned having more than one office PC you would be better off connecting Outlook 2003 via IMAP rather than POP3; reason being, with IMAP each client synchronizes local mail folders with those that are on the mail server at your ISP end, therefore, all of your mail folders end up being the same across all of your computers (and any other devices that you may use to connect to email). POP3 simply downloads whatever is considered to be new, with the occasional hickup causing all to be downloaded over again (i.e. very crude by today's standards). Regardless, you can still archive old messages offline via using Outlook 2003 should you wish to.

Step by step instructions can be provided on here to walk you through the necessary steps, something that some of us can do in our sleep (I rolled out Outlook 2003 to many thousands of end users, for example, many of whom were coming kicking and screaming from Lotus Notes).

As first step, you can either go onto the BT site and change your email password, or use something like the app that DV linked to above to reveal your current one. Subsequently changing your password within Outlook 2003 is a cinch, as you'll be prompted for new when you previous password fails to be accepted by the server.

BTW, there is no reason why Outlook 2003 can't continue to be used via POP3 or IMAP.

 

[Craig B]

Ah, now that's another tale of woe. The answer is yes, but today's update left me with a screen that looked like the one you get when things go wrong and it's in limp mode, and the PC was very slow. I tried restarting, resetting the monitor etc, nothing, it wouldn't allow me to go back to the earlier version, so I went for Reset. 4 hours in, and it's been stuck at 68% for the past 3. I think I might have made a bad decision.

Turn it off at the power switch (usually by holding the button in for 5 - 10 seconds), let stand for 10 seconds, then switch back on.

Report back here should it not get itself sorted.

 

[Craig B]

So by don't complicate matters you suggest totally changing the software he has been using since 2003 lol.

To his credit, one can tell that DV was attempting to simplify things by virtue of him not having suggested that the OP run Open Office/Thunderbird on a Windows VM client that is being hosted on some random Linux distribution that is booted off an external drive, or sommat.

 

[Darth Vader]

Ah, now that's another tale of woe. The answer is yes, but today's update left me with a screen that looked like the one you get when things go wrong and it's in limp mode, and the PC was very slow. I tried restarting, resetting the monitor etc, nothing, it wouldn't allow me to go back to the earlier version, so I went for Reset. 4 hours in, and it's been stuck at 68% for the past 3. I think I might have made a bad decision.

What is your hardware?

I hope that you have learned that you need to keep a backup. Unfortunately Windows backup/restore is crap - sorry. I use it but its utter crap. I can show you how to make a good backup thats faster than paid for applications including Acronis (which I do have several licenses) but no longer use. I've just come out of hospital after a major op and I took a working copy of my desktop computer on a USB M.2 SSD with me that I used whilst in bed with an Apple Macbook Air. It was quicker to make a USB bootable working clone of my complete Windows installation than a simple image backup using Microsoft backup/restore and for free.

If you'd like my help then please use pm as I am getting tired of smart arses on pfm who understand far less than they think. I am also tired and in pain after my op so tolerance is lower than it could be.

If you have old hardware and a HDD then I would suggest you leave Windows a while and see if it sorts itself out - is the disk activity light flashing? Use power off as a last resort.

DV

 

[Tumeni Notes]

Well, this may not be "taking you gently by the hand", but the OP suggests you are running a small to medium sized business.

If this is the case, and your lack of expertise is as you describe, then I suggest you need to hire someone with this expertise, either as a consultant, an advisor, or as a permanent staffer.

Trying to muddle along like this is likely to prove expensive, disastrous, or both.

 

[garyi]

I would have to agree, using a 20 year old email client is not a good look for a business.

 

[Craig B]

I would have to agree, using a 20 year old email client is not a good look for a business.

Who's to know, and how?

(I would, but only if both the default email editor and Word, i.e. 'Wordmail, haven't had their default forms altered.)

 

[foxwelljsly]

Well, this may not be "taking you gently by the hand", but the OP suggests you are running a small to medium sized business.

If this is the case, and your lack of expertise is as you describe, then I suggest you need to hire someone with this expertise, either as a consultant, an advisor, or as a permanent staffer.

Trying to muddle along like this is likely to prove expensive, disastrous, or both.

This. If your business is dependent upon your IT working properly, find and pay someone local to offer proper support. There are loads of people that can provide advice on stuff like this for small businesses.

Personally, I would migrate all my users to their own office 365 web accounts and the email away from BT. You and your staff could then use any old PC that can access the internet and runs a sufficiently up to date web browser that supports office and keep a spare in the cupboard in case one breaks down and eventually ditch BT completely. Assuming you data retention requirements are minimal, I would probably use the OneDrive space that comes with 365 to store my data. You should pay someone to configure this, migrate your data and advise on how to migrate e mail accounts.

Your ongoing IT support needs once this has been done should be negligible and you should never have to hear the phrase ‘POP3’ again!