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Microphony II

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BE718

pfm Member
YNWOAN said:
In terms of material damping then yes to a point, but acrylic is no more a broad band isolator than MDF (for example). The way the stand is structured means that it's not terribly rigid and therefore lossy - but again this wil be centred around a narrow frequency range.
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Agreed but the plastic sheets should still be very rigid in the vertical plane.
 
Sue Pertwee-Tyr said:
Rad, you're doing it again. Please stop derailing a potentially interesting thread to score irrelevant debating points.
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I am not interested in scoring debating points.

I just think some of BE's assumptions are simplistic or incorrect.
If you start with simplistic or incorrect premises you may end with wrong conclusions.
 
radamel said:
I am not interested in scoring debating points.

I just think some of BE's assumptions are simplistic or incorrect.
If you start with simplistic or incorrect premises you may end with wrong conclusions.
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No, I think everyone has drawn the conclusion you try to aggressively score debating points.

You claim my points may be wrong or simplistic yet so far we have established you have little knowledge to base any such conclusion upon. The USB debacle is a prime case in point. You claimed timing was a major issue, when the major benefit of Asynchonous USB audio is that the audio clock is local to the dac, the dac controls the data flow from the computer, and timing becomes irrelevant in the USB chain.

If I make a point I will always try to explain it and demonstrate it with measurements

I wont get dragged off topic by your nonsense again.
 
BE718 said:
Not at all. How much of the music you listen too is of a continuous nature?
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I think you may be confusing continuous vibration input with apparently continuous sound output.

But hey I don't want to derail the topic so please forget about it.
 
BE718 said:
No, I think everyone has drawn the concluimplementação to aggressively score debating points.

You claim my points may be wrong or simplistic yet so far we have established you have little knowledge to base any conclusion upon. The USB debacle is a prime case in point. You claimed timing was a major issue, when the major benefit of Asynchonous USB audio is that the audio clock is local to the dac and timing becomes irrelevant in the USB chain.

I wont get dragged off topic by your nonsense again.
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Oh dear.

So you think that the fact that there is an USB asyncrhronous implementation makes timing issues irrelevant in the USB chain?!


You really live in a unreal world assuming that simply because there is a master clock it will be able to guarantee a perfect time domain data transfer.

No point in continuing really.
 
Someone needs to make little anti phase transducers powered by noise cancelling headphone output with a delay that attach to component cases. that has to be cheaper and a darn site more effective than posey stands.....
 
radamel said:
I think you may be confusing continuous vibration input with apparently continuous sound output.

But hey I don't want to derail the topic so please forget about it.
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Considering that we are talking about acoustic induced vibration then no I think it is you who is confused. Music is an acoustic pressure wave created by the vibration of your speaker. without vibration there is no sound output. This pressure acts on surfaces such as you ear drum (or your hifi) where it creates vibration.

Vibration also conducts through solid materials.

And you claim not to be trying to score debating points.

If only you had any idea of what you talk.
 
radamel said:
Oh dear.

So you think that the fact that there is an USB asyncrhronous implementation makes timing issues irrelevant in the USB chain?!


You really live in a unreal world assuming that the simply because there is a master clock it will be able to guarantee a perfect time domain data transfer.

No point in continuing really.
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If the data is properly buffered in the dac and the dac audio clock is separate yes. The whole point is that the data flow into the dac is asynchronously controlled by the DAC. The master audio clock is not related to the incoming data or usb transfer.

This is the fundamental difference between USB and SPDIF'

Now, be a good little boy and go away and stop trying to derail the thread.
 
BE718 said:
Considering that we are talking about acoustic induced vibration then no I think it is you who is confused. Music is an acoustic pressure wave created by the vibration of your speaker. without vibration there is no sound output. This pressure acts on surfaces such as you ear drum (or your hifi) where it creates vibration.

Vibration also conducts through solid materials.
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You are right. The confusion was mine indeed.
 
BE718 said:
If the data is properly buffered in the dac and the dac audio clock is separate yes. The whole point is that the data flow into the dac is asynchronously controlled by the DAC. The master audio clock is not related to the incoming data or usb transfer.

This is the fundamental difference between USB and SPDIF'

Now, be a good little boy and go away and stop trying to derail the thread.
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About asynchronous USB I hope we will return to it in an appropriate topic. I think you may be in for a surprise about how much you don't know.

No need for patronising expressions like "good little boy" though. Not exactly the kind of material for constructive posting I would say.
 
If your vibration measurements yielded nothing yet some folks could still pick out changes of support in blind tests what would your conclusion be?

Mine would be that you have measured the wrong parameter or that although measurement of whatever the phenomenon is always theoretically possible it just isn't practical to obtain an indicative positive measurement.

There would be no magic or foo at work. We simply would not know what exactly was happening.

I can live in this state of uncertainty.

I suspect some cannot; it must either be one thing or another; meaured or non-existent (imagined.)
 
Steven Toy said:
If your vibration measurements yielded nothing yet some folks could still pick out changes of support in blind tests what would your conclusion be?

Mine would be that you have measured the wrong parameter or that although measurement of whatever the phenomenon is always theoretically possible it just isn't practical to obtain an inficative positive measurement.

There would be no magic or foo at work. We simply would not know what exactly was happening.

I can live in this state of uncertainty.

I suspect some cannot; it must either be one thing or another; measured or non-existent (imagined.)
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Right, let me get this clear, your claimed reason for the supports operation its "earthing" or shall we say it disappears vibration into the ground. The manufacturer claims it isolates vibration and yet scientific theory dictates, backed up by measurement, that rigidly coupled objects do not isolate vibration.

So I measured vibration because you say this is dependant on vibration. Yet you now claim I have measured the wrong parameter.

Sorry but you have totally lost me.

It is perfectly possible to obtain a vibration measurement. My test in the earlier post was to simply demonstrate that rigid coupling is not the way to isolate vibration. It was also to demonstrate that vibration doesn't just disappear into the ground.

You will probably better off putting a half inflated whoopee cushion under your amp in terms of vibration control.

If you like what you think your stand is doing then thats absolutely fine, however if I were concerned about stopping vibration getting into my amp I would personally be looking in a different direction



EDIT sorry, i reread you post, so this is just a hypothetical proposition? If it is it cannot be answered because you are presuming that outcome, I dont presume that outcome would happen.
 
radamel said:
About asynchronous USB I hope we will return to it in an appropriate topic. I think you may be in for a surprise about how much you don't know.

No need for patronising expressions like "good little boy" though. Not exactly the kind of material for constructive posting I would say.
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It's a different form of aggression/confrontation.
 
BE718 said:
Right, let me get this clear, your claimed reason for the supports operation its "earthing" or shall we say it disappears vibration into the ground. The manufacturer claims it isolates vibration and yet theory dictates, backed up by measurement, that rigidly coupled objects do not isolate vibration.

So I measured vibration because you say this is dependant on vibration. Yet you now claim I have measured the wrong parameter.

Sorry but you have totally lost me.

It is perfectly possible to obtain a vibration measurement. My test in the earlier post was to simply demonstrate that rigid coupling is not the way to isolate vibration. It was also to demonstrate that vibration doesn't just disappear into the ground.

You will probably better off putting a half inflated whoopee cushion under your amp.

If you like what you think your stand is doing then thats absolutely fine, however if I were concerned about stopping vibration getting into my amp I would personally be looking in a different direction



EDIT sorry, i reread you post, so this is just a hypothetical proposition? If it is it cannot be answered because you are presuming that outcome, I dont presume that outcome would happen.
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You are presuming that outcome would not happen. I'm not presuming anything.

I have provided a hypothesis not a claim for how my stand may work. Please desist from erecting strawmen; politicians do that not scientists.
 
radamel said:
About asynchronous USB I hope we will return to it in an appropriate topic. I think you may be in for a surprise about how much you don't know.

No need for patronising expressions like "good little boy" though. Not exactly the kind of material for constructive posting I would say.
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Thats fine, can you start another thread, we will discuss mine and your knowledge there.

My comments are only to discourage you from attempting to score these irrelevant debating points and disrupting and derailing the thread. Several people have commented on your behaviour in this thread.
 
Steven Toy said:
You are presuming that outcome would not happen. I'm not presuming anything.

I have provided a hypothesis not a claim for how my stand may work. Please desist from erecting strawmen; politicians do that not scientists.
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How have i misrepresented your argument? The claimed modes of operation of this stand, by yourself and the manufacturer are technically incorrect. If you would like to propose a different mode of operation then please do so that we can test the theory.
 
BE178,

Thanks for conducting those measurements, agree with your conclusions, which were not too surprising.

I am more interested now as the effectiveness of the multi layered Mana approach under loudspeakers.

As I have already mentioned I removed my Mana stands from under my loudspeakers when I changed to speakers with pretty inert cabinets and they are in the UK whilst I have just moved to the US. However, I am sure an opportunity will come up to measure them in the UK if PaulR or myself can get the right equipment (one other friend who has his speakers on many layers of Mana lives within walking distance of PaulR and myself).

As the effect can be felt through your skin it must be measurable. Is there any other way of measuring the vibration that could give us some idea as to the mechanism and effectiveness from an objective standpoint (John's suggestion of an iPhone was dismissed but to get an idea?)?
 
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