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Met police to hand in weapons and stop killing black Britons

Finnegan said:
Any suspicious, unexpected or unexplained death in a hospital- general or mental health- would be reported to both the police and coroner. It is the decision of the coroner whether an inquest is warranted. The police would become involved if foul play was suspected. There would also be an internal investigation by the hospital managers.
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youre almost right. No inquest if a doctor writes a cause of death certificate. Without that, automatically an inquest. Coroner doesn’t have a choice about that.
 
Ginger said:
really? Check the link in one of my previous posts to deaths in Essex
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Yes really. I think its fair to assume that you have personal experience of this issue and you feel failed by services. If that is the case, then despite our sharp exchange of opinion on this thread I offer my sincere condolences.
 
Finnegan said:
Yes really. I think its fair to assume that you have personal experience of this issue and you feel failed by services. If that is the case, then despite our sharp exchange of opinion on this thread I offer my sincere condolences.
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No, not affected by it but that’s a kind thought. May I politely suggest you read the link to the Essex deaths ? And then consider my post above about docs signing ‘cause of death’ certificates. And then maybe consider how ‘errors’ can be, um, glossed over.

And that’s just one county. A little light googling about death while restrained in NHS care is interesting.

for anyone who accuses me of ‘whataboutism’ I’m simply responding to other people’s posts introducing what would happen in other walks of life.
 
Ginger said:
No, not affected by it but that’s a kind thought. May I politely suggest you read the link to the Essex deaths ? And then consider my post above about docs signing ‘cause of death’ certificates. And then maybe consider how ‘errors’ can be, um, glossed over.

And that’s just one county. A little light googling about death while restrained in NHS care is interesting.

for anyone who accuses me of ‘whataboutism’ I’m simply responding to other people’s posts introducing what would happen in other walks of life.
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I don’t like sharing too many autobiographical details with strangers on a public forum, but believe me, I have extensive experience in this area. I am certainly not naive in relation to neglect leading to untoward incidents, nor efforts on occasion of individuals, or groups of individuals, to try to cover their tracks and deflect blame. And that is just as repulsive and unacceptable in the police force as it is in the NHS or any other organisation.
 
Ginger said:
Totally agree that we should not have to fight for accountability . It occurs to me that if the shooting is a homicide investigation, why hasnt the officer been arrested and interviewed? The family and the public get the same investigation as any other murder, and the officer gets all the same legal protections as Joe public. PACE and it’s time limits apply. Why don’t they do that?
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There's no evidence that a crime has been committed by the officer?
 
Ginger said:
Totally agree that we should not have to fight for accountability . It occurs to me that if the shooting is a homicide investigation, why hasnt the officer been arrested and interviewed? The family and the public get the same investigation as any other murder, and the officer gets all the same legal protections as Joe public. PACE and it’s time limits apply. Why don’t they do that?
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There are lots of reasons either way. It is for subsequent justification once any investigation is deemed complete.
 
Andrew C! said:
There are lots of reasons either way. It is for subsequent justification once any investigation is deemed complete.
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This is the piece which us mere mortals will never be able to appreciate. Those in such positions have to make a quick and considered life or death decision which others will have the luxury to pore over at leisure.
 
Andrew C! said:
There are lots of reasons either way. It is for subsequent justification once any investigation is deemed complete.
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What reasons? If I was the officer, I think I might prefer to be arrested and interviewed, PACE time limits and its protections being applied, the same as for anyone else. Why would I want things dragged out for months and months, with others having the luxury of time, that I didn't have? Why shouldn't the rules of investigation, disclosure etc apply to the investigators?

One criminal investigation and that's it. Why is policing different?

And I don't understand your final sentence. What is for subsequent justification once an investigation is complete?
 
@Ginger I’m not privy to the intricacies of what evidence has been obtained, needs to be obtained, or if any other necessity factors for arrest of the suspended officer are deemed appropriate. You quoted PACE so you will fully know there are numerous options available when interviewing a suspect under caution, for example.

The officer I’m sure will be legally supported. The Federation offer this. I’m not going to get drawn into time delays for investigations. It’s an area that I’ve found irksome on occasion. But like someone else has posted up thread, I’m not going to share specific examples on a public forum.

Finally, most investigations of this nature are reviewed for lessons learned. Many such investigations, and their reviews, are not deemed newsworthy - despite often letting the media know.
 
Andrew C! said:
@Ginger I’m not privy to the intricacies of what evidence has been obtained, needs to be obtained, or if any other necessity factors for arrest of the suspended officer are deemed appropriate. You quoted PACE so you will fully know there are numerous options available when interviewing a suspect under caution, for example.

The officer I’m sure will be legally supported. The Federation offer this. I’m not going to get drawn into time delays for investigations. It’s an area that I’ve found irksome on occasion. But like someone else has posted up thread, I’m not going to share specific examples on a public forum.

Finally, most investigations of this nature are reviewed for lessons learned. Many such investigations, and their reviews, are not deemed newsworthy - despite often letting the media know.
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Chuck me some eggs to suck Andrew... PACE code G. Prompt and effective investigation, avoid delay etc. I'd have thought it was totally in the interest's of everyone to have a prompt and effective investigation, without delay. There's no requirement for evidence to be available to justify the arrest - the guy's dead and we think we know how that happened!

How he/she is legally supported is largely irrelevant - same for anyone in custody.

We all know that the IOPC doesn't have the back office capability to conduct a murder investigation. They'd have to use police services somewhere in some components of it, or bring in an unrelated force. That's all fraught with problems in the eyes of the interested parties. But I'm serious - why isn't this 'homicide' investigation treated the same as any other? If I was that AFO, I'd be publicly demanding it. Bring on the spotlight.
 
The Met's simply too big to fail, and for that reason bad apples have leverage over those in power. The police should be the very best of us and that's clearly just not the case.
 
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