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MDAC First Listen (part XXVII)

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Asphaltradler said:
I wonder if you (or some other MDac owner with experience with different amps) could say something about that combination. The special issues with this amp is its MOS-FET design and passive preamp, although I use it now mostly without preamp (MDAC on -40 to -16db). I know that you had some experiences with Creek.
Here some marketing words:
... evolution of the unique MOS-FET power output circuit, originally invented by Alex Nikitin when he worked for Creek Audio [...] Further developed recently to take advantage of newly available power transistors, linearity and noise performance has been improved. In addition, its efficiency has been improved in a cunning way to boost its power output by 20% without increasing the size of the power supply. (I think that means it has a bit too much gain for power amp usage, you perhaps remember my struggle with audible noise because of that).
To maintain its purist principles the Destiny 2‘s volume level is adjusted [...] by a 20k Ohm motorized ALPS Blue Velvet potentiometer. Therefore, the audio signal travels directly to the power amp from the input socket and selector relay via the volume control and nothing else gets in the way to degrade the distortion or noise. This is the essence of a passive pre-amp.
I'm altogether quite happy with the amp now but am not sure if it gets all there is to be got from the MDac - e.g. I struggle to hear great differences between 44/96khz or the different filter types. Especially when MDac 2 comes...

Asphaltradler
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I'm a fan of MOSFET amplifiers - they tend to sound smoother and less fatiguing then transistor amplifiers. I've not heard the Creek Destiny 2, but as it has a Passive pre-amplifier all the gain is produced by the power-amplifier section, this suggests it will have very sensitive inputs - not an ideal match for the MDAC output (you will need to dial in a lot of digital attenuation).

To get the best out of the MDAC and even more important with the MDAC2 I recommend a power amplifier with balanced inputs.
 
The Creek has 33db of gain in passive mode. So you'll need to burn off about half of that to run the Mdac between 0 and -10db. No biggy just use that volume control...
 
JohnW said:
ITs very hard to pre-judge a final system synergy... When I heard that you had bought the MB's I thought oh dear that's going to be a bright system... The MB's having a typical Transistor amplifier sound, tight Bass but rather cold and hard... I prefer the softer sounding 8000M's although I do miss the tight impressive Bass impact of the MB's.

So on reflection the slightly "recessed" sound of "Your" Fusioned MDAC combined with the MB's should result in a good system synergy... I believe that under normal circumstances a Fusioned MDAC with the MB's would be a tad fatiguing after time... MB's are really not my cup of tea...
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I will admit that I am not very fond of the meet-in-the-middle approach to synergy. For me it is a bit of a fudge. I prefer it when components sound right with a wider range of kit and work well in their own right.

Hierarchy (source first) is more important than synergy, imho although this is not an issue of cost but one of performance. My L3 Toy punches well above its weight and recently saw off the DAC inside the £5000 Marantz SA-7S1.

http://m.techradar.com/reviews/audi...ers-and-recorders/marantz-sa-7s1-95051/review

The Marantz, although composed and even-handed sounded lifeless and clinical in comparison with the L3 Toy which also sounds even-handed, not bright or recessed or anything remotely wayward. The latter just did melody, harmony and texture much better and had more "balls" without sounding at all fatiguing. The rest of the system was a prototype grounded grid pre similar to mine, a pair of £15,000 Soul hybrid Monoblocks and a pair of Tannoy Kensington SEs. In other words, a ruthlessly revealing setup.

If the MDAC2 is to be better than this it won't have much competition at any price.
 
Steven Toy said:
I will admit that I am not very fond of the meet-in-the-middle approach to synergy. For me it is a bit of a fudge. I prefer it when components sound right with a wider range of kit and work well in their own right.
Click to expand...

Yes I Fully agree with you here - but the 8200MB's are soooooo forward that I'd be prepared to compromise myself for the sack of system synergy......

Anyway I've spent a further day on Phils unit and now much happier... Pls. roll-on MDAC2 so I don't have to fight these battles...
 
PhilCTTE said:
Fair enough sounds reasonable. I do like a forward sound with plenty of bass , played at ear splitting volumes at times, bit of an ageing hooligan I,m afraid :)
Fatiguing is always best avoided tho:D

One thing to look forward to is the final design of the Mdac2 , at least we can be sure of a level playing field when it comes to component build.

Thanks again for all your hard work.
Btw are these final builds known as level 3?
Just how many upgrades have you slaved away at over the past six or so months?
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Hi Phil,

Spent the day on your unit - now much happier, its packed up to go tomorrow, Renata will Email you to confirm your address.

I hope you have balanced interconnects :)

Ps. Sorry its had AV bypass option added - Renata only just informed me as she checked your past Emails that you no longer wanted the AV bypass option....
 
Thanks John will keep an eye out for email.

AV Bypass is needed now , as I've splashed out on the mono blocks. At a previous point I thought I would wait for the MDac2 . I confirmed the AV bypass requirement with you when I asked if you had a sliver unit. I originally paid the extra £50 when ordered, so it's all good.

Thanks for going the extra mile ... Really appreciate it!!

And yes have balanced interconnects
 
PhilCTTE said:
Thanks John will keep an eye out for email.

AV Bypass is needed now , as I've splashed out on the mono blocks. At a previous point I thought I would wait for the MDac2 . I confirmed the AV bypass requirement with you when I asked if you had a sliver unit. I originally paid the extra £50 when ordered, so it's all good.

Thanks for going the extra mile ... Really appreciate it!!

And yes have balanced interconnects
Click to expand...

You should have the Email form Renata - maybe its in your Spam folder.... Resent just incase...
 
Hi, JohnW

I am a Hong Kong user of M DAC. Recently, I got my M DAC from my freind.
The M DAC is about 1.5 years old. The sound is great but i have a problem with it.

I use firmware A 1.0 with (1) Philips DBP-9700 coax output and (2) marantz NA7004 coax output to my M DAC. With balance out to Accuphase E-460.

The problem is every time when it starts from cold (my room temp is about 25-30C), there are three times 0.5 second signal unlock (no sound for 0.5 second, display from 48.000 to 48.0 and change back to 48.000) happen after 3 minutes, 30 secounds afterwards and further 30 seconds afterwards. Afterwards, it works property. I tried cold start for many times and encountered the same situation in every time.

The situation happens only when i set "Jitter rejection" in "Auto" or "Narrow", but dose not happen when set to "Middle" or "Wide".

When set to "Auto", after the 3 time 0.5 second signal unlock, it display frequenct 48.000khz very stable. When it set to "Middle", althougt there is no 0.5 second signal unlock, the displayed frequency changed 49.997 and 48.003 alternately.

I know the MDAC is not temp compensated and need to be warmed up.

Please advise if my M DAC is normal or with any defect.

Thank You

Hong Kong user Ken
 
Hong Kong 3873 said:
Hi, JohnW

I am a Hong Kong user of M DAC. Recently, I got my M DAC from my freind.
The M DAC is about 1.5 years old. The sound is great but i have a problem with it.

I use firmware A 1.0 with (1) Philips DBP-9700 coax output and (2) marantz NA7004 coax output to my M DAC. With balance out to Accuphase E-460.

The problem is every time when it starts from cold (my room temp is about 25-30C), there are three times 0.5 second signal unlock (no sound for 0.5 second, display from 48.000 to 48.0 and change back to 48.000) happen after 3 minutes, 30 secounds afterwards and further 30 seconds afterwards. Afterwards, it works property. I tried cold start for many times and encountered the same situation in every time.

The situation happens only when i set "Jitter rejection" in "Auto" or "Narrow", but dose not happen when set to "Middle" or "Wide".

When set to "Auto", after the 3 time 0.5 second signal unlock, it display frequenct 48.000khz very stable. When it set to "Middle", althougt there is no 0.5 second signal unlock, the displayed frequency changed 49.997 and 48.003 alternately.

I know the MDAC is not temp compensated and need to be warmed up.

Please advise if my M DAC is normal or with any defect.

Thank You

Hong Kong user Ken
Click to expand...

Your MDAC's OK - the internal clock will settle after about 5 minutes Warm up - the problem is the very high jitter levels of the marantz NA7004 - you will need to keep the "Jitter rejection" set to Medium or High - with High Jitter sources DONT try to force "Narrow" otherwise you will get Miss-lock events.
 
IMG_1082_small.jpg


My new Adam Tensor Delta are doing very well so far. The X-ART tweeter and midrange combination is outstanding. I think they work very well with my L2 FUSION. The stage is incredibly wide.

The only "problem" so far is the high gain. I'm using a volume range of -30 to -50 on the MDAC. The input gain on the speakers is already set to minimum (-10dB).

John, do I have to expect signal degradation with these settings?

Michael
 
I NEED some of those...

My own two way Adams sound very fine indeed. Can't imagine how excellent the three ways are.

I had to get -20dB attenuators and turn down the gain by -10dB.
 
fusion5 said:
IMG_1082_small.jpg


My new Adam Tensor Delta are doing very well so far. The X-ART tweeter and midrange combination is outstanding. I think they work very well with my L2 FUSION. The stage is incredibly wide.

The only "problem" so far is the high gain. I'm using a volume range of -30 to -50 on the MDAC. The input gain on the speakers is already set to minimum (-10dB).

John, do I have to expect signal degradation with these settings?

Michael
Click to expand...

Hi Michael,

Yes - I'd expect deterioration with "Listening" levels under say -30dB....

Arthurs also had the same problem - I dont understand why the Adam's have so much gain.

I'm happy to see that Benchmark are being sensible with the Gain of there new power-amplifier (we also settled upon 9dB gain for the MIMP / MAMP) - its totally crazy that in this day and age we are still expecting power-amplifiers with 29dB gain etc... it appears that the Adams are even more sensitive!
 
29 db is still a sensible number for anyone with a vinyl front end, it helps spread the load, so to speak. With my ksa 200 I have to run the mdac around -30db. Normally I run it into my power amp between 0-10db.
 
Installed Maverick and found that Apple reenabled „Integer Mode“ in 10.9
M-Dac sounding better than ever before with Integer and PureMusic.
Good to see good thinks return.
 
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