advertisement


MDAC first listen (part XXIV)

Status
Not open for further replies.
I’d go the full hog with the redesigned PCB, not only including the Toy / Fusion upgrades but include Dual pair of ESS9018’s, AV bypass and the potential for an extra say GBP50 and a months extra design effort to add Async USB to 768Fs!! and DSD support etc.

The first 20 or so customers who have paid the Toy / Fusion upgraded MDAC’s can then send them back to me here in CZ once the upgrade PCB is available and I’ll transplant the “Precious” Bulk Foil resistors onto the new MDAC PCB (the PCB will be design for both options) – for the cost price of the new PCB which I'm guessing at around GBP120…

Sounds lika a good plan. This would also allow to match future products like MPAX and MIMP/MAMP (one AV Bypass should suffice and I'd guess including it into the MDAC is the best way to go). Also I like the Async USB to 768Fs!! and DSD support.

As one of the first 20 I would pay the GBP120 + GBP50 (USB/DSD) in advance to support your operation.

Michael
 
The idea sounds tempting, but I'm worried it's a long term project... I know you are a perfectionist, so it will take time to finalize the new board. Especially when the feature list is now open :) Why not then offer simply a new whole DAC branded by LakeWest? It would be probably also cheaper than the price of MDAC + 400.

PS: What is the advantage of using dual pair of ESS9018’s?

it would be the first steps for Lakewest.... its SOOO much easier just to manufacture a PCB then a whole product! The MDAC already has a decent chassis display etc and would not be hindering the end result.

Indeed I'm VERY VERY mindful of relying upon myself here - the fear of having received the instalments I hope shall drive me to stay on course. I've already said to myself this is what you will do and no more...! I believe I can have the PCB design of the basic 24/96 PCB version ready within 2 months of starting (I'd need to complete the upgrade of the 20 units I have here waiting for the Fusion / Toy resistors first).

The 24/96 USB option is the least risk, but for an extra month and a higher risk its worth looking at the USB2 option with DSD and 768Fs support - cost is minimal - just the extra design time, then Dominik will issue 10's of software versions narrowing down the bugs while at the sometime adding the many extra features we have in mind that can be done with the extra processor power of the USB2 solution...

I'd want EVERYONE to understand what's involved - payments would be spread over time and I'd keep everyone abreast of the results! it would be like watching the birth of your new baby :)
 
John,

maybe you should include a new back panel as well. With all possible new connections like av bypass and balanced headphone out this could be worthwhile.

Michael
 
Hi ducatiman,

...

The plan that is now brewing in my mind (I’m putting it out here for feedback) is to offer a whole new MDAC Mainboard that we would manufacture here in Europe thus insuring quality and consistency.
...
You would be essentially getting a new product with only front panel, PSU and chassis reused from the original MDAC.

I’d go the full hog with the redesigned PCB, not only including the Toy / Fusion upgrades but include Dual pair of ESS9018’s, AV bypass and the potential for an extra say GBP50 and a months extra design effort to add Async USB to 768Fs!! and DSD support etc.

The first 20 or so customers who have paid the Toy / Fusion upgraded MDAC’s can then send them back to me here in CZ once the upgrade PCB is available and I’ll transplant the “Precious” Bulk Foil resistors onto the new MDAC PCB (the PCB will be design for both options) – for the cost price of the new PCB which I'm guessing at around GBP120…

This route has many advantages – not only is it a vastly better product without the restrictions of trying to add the modifications to the existing PCB, you have the DUAL ESS9018’s and the potential of DSD & 786Fs support with each unit tested and QC’ed by myself here in Europe – more importantly we would be helping the local European economy, shifting production back from China.
...

Hi John,

I think you have to go down this route due to the workload unless you can find some guys to train up to your standards. I guess that would add labour costs, which maybe would not be viable. So I think your proposal is a good one.

Just to be clear:

- the original L2 upgrade was £350 now to be £400 based on a new dual ESS PCB?
- the new PCB would support DSD & 786Fs USB as an upgrade option (cost TBA)?
- the Toy and Fusion upgrades would add the same cost as before i.e. the extra cost of the resistor kit from HFC?

I guess MDAC would be one of the 20 your offer applies to? Maybe need to list those owners?

I'd like to get my MDAC back with the L2 Fusion upgrade as planned if I am included in your offer, then decide about the new PCB. I'd definitely be interested in DSD but I guess at this stage it's too early say what this might work out at cost wise?

Thanks
 
John

Sorry, another question. You posted a concern a while back about the MDAC losing some of the L-R soundstage gains when the case was put back on. Is this still to be solved? Is that maybe a reason to have a new/modified box possibly from a third party?

BR
 
JohnW: How would your mainboard plan affect people such as me who have a partially modded MDAC? As you know, we had a plan to update just the bits that needed updating, and perhaps the original plan might still make more sense for me. Really just wanting a bit of clarification.

What I'd like to do is get the mods we spoke about, including the Toy-level resistors (can't really justify the Fusion resistor cost; I suspect the extra money might be better spent in my case on room treatments). My MDAC is roughly what you were calling the L1, and the plan had been to take it to L2.

I'm flexible about when to send it, if you do still want to do it the original way; I just need to know when suits you best. Any time would suit me, although preferably at a point that allows a quicker turn-around for you.

PM (or better still email me) if you want to take this off-line.

Best,

john
 
The main PCB board doesn't sound like a bad option but it still leaves you with a lot of work to do if the person wanting the upgrade can't replace the board themselves.

The other option in putting money into something that's built from the ground up, now i know this is vastly more expensive way of doing it and unless you can get a audio manufacturer/backer interested in the idea (something that went a bit pear-shaped with Audiolab obviously!) the end product isn't going to be cheap, but i feel the next step is to build something that competes with the Invictas, Weiss 202 etc, strait out of the box (not that the MDAC is far off anyway i suppose!).

Without the help of an existing manufacturer i guess were looking at £2k plus for a Dac/pre, which puts it out of reach of many people, so thinking about it, the new main board looks like a good value :D, which is what the MDAC was originally all about.

Even though i dont own an MDAC at the moment, i thought it was very close to being nearly perfect, but there was always a slight congestion and lack of openess, you can count me in for the new PCB as i feel the TDAC is 'light years' away and when i does arrive i can match it with my YG Acoustics Sonja 1.3 speakers ;).
 
I'm in for the newly upgraded MDAC PCBs including DSD + USB2 support (!!!), provided the TDAC is not going ahead.
 
I actually gave up on the idea of upgrading with all the changes and such, with this new idea of fresh pcb boards I think I may jump in on this.
 
Tempted by the new PCB idea.
But not having heard what the upgraded version can do in my system, I'm not ready to commit to a another couple of hundred

Cheers,
Johan
 
it would be the first steps for Lakewest.... its SOOO much easier just to manufacture a PCB then a whole product! The MDAC already has a decent chassis display etc and would not be hindering the end result.

Indeed I'm VERY VERY mindful of relying upon myself here - the fear of having received the instalments I hope shall drive me to stay on course. I've already said to myself this is what you will do and no more...! I believe I can have the PCB design of the basic 24/96 PCB version ready within 2 months of starting (I'd need to complete the upgrade of the 20 units I have here waiting for the Fusion / Toy resistors first).

The 24/96 USB option is the least risk, but for an extra month and a higher risk its worth looking at the USB2 option with DSD and 768Fs support - cost is minimal - just the extra design time, then Dominik will issue 10's of software versions narrowing down the bugs while at the sometime adding the many extra features we have in mind that can be done with the extra processor power of the USB2 solution...

Yes, I understand. In that case this sounds like a really good way to go :)

USB2 sounds also good! Is it possible/worth also to consider electrical isolation, for example via a short internal optical pass-through?

But still don't know what is the advantage of dual DACs? Less interference between channels?
 
Hi ducatiman,

I remember you :) - I'm very happy your enjoying one of the very first MDAC's :)

Due to the continued issues I'm experiencing with MDAC build quality, sound quality variability and our longer term plans to progress forward we are considering changing the direction as to how we handle these MDAC upgrades.

Currently each MDAC upgrade is taking about 4 to 5 days to complete as I'm essentially customising the upgrade for each unit – this is obviously unsustainable, extremely frustrating and not to mention financially unprofitable.

The plan that is now brewing in my mind (I’m putting it out here for feedback) is to offer a whole new MDAC Mainboard that we would manufacture here in Europe thus insuring quality and consistency. To allow us to meet the price targets we would purchase key “expensive” items in Asia – cheaper passive components etc would be purchased locally here in Europe.

As the PCB is built by SMD machine, labour is such a small part of the board cost we could still meet our price targets for the upgrades with a higher quality and more professional product.

To help finance this endeavour I’m thinking upon the lines that say “50” perspective customers send instalments of GBP100 per month – and within 4 months (GBP400) we will be able to ship out upgrade boards (for simple DIY fit) – or I can upgrade units here in CZ as I’m currently doing – being a simple board swap it would be a much quicker process. It would also allow owners outside of Europe to upgrade there unit.

You would be essentially getting a new product with only front panel, PSU and chassis reused from the original MDAC.

I’d go the full hog with the redesigned PCB, not only including the Toy / Fusion upgrades but include Dual pair of ESS9018’s, AV bypass and the potential for an extra say GBP50 and a months extra design effort to add Async USB to 768Fs!! and DSD support etc.

The first 20 or so customers who have paid the Toy / Fusion upgraded MDAC’s can then send them back to me here in CZ once the upgrade PCB is available and I’ll transplant the “Precious” Bulk Foil resistors onto the new MDAC PCB (the PCB will be design for both options) – for the cost price of the new PCB which I'm guessing at around GBP120…

This route has many advantages – not only is it a vastly better product without the restrictions of trying to add the modifications to the existing PCB, you have the DUAL ESS9018’s and the potential of DSD & 786Fs support with each unit tested and QC’ed by myself here in Europe – more importantly we would be helping the local European economy, shifting production back from China.

Just an idea and early days, wondering if there would be interest as the current method of upgrading the PCB is unsustainable in the longterm – while this would be a 4 month plan – so far about 130 people have expressed interest in the upgrade – at 3 to 4 days a unit (hopefully I can speed this up for the remain units here) I’m never going to be able to upgrade all units! While it would add a delay for a few you do get a vastly superior product – and the payments can be spread over 4 months :)

I would only need 50 commitments at GBP100 per month to go ahead and design a new replacement board incorporating the Toy / Fusion upgrades + all the juicy extras such as dual 9018’s (and DSD / 768Fs support if the consensus is to spend the extra GBP50 and month extra hardware development) – it would be a REFERENCE grade DAC (with all the lessons learnt from the current upgrades etc)… any interest or comments?
@ John,

Excellent proposal John!

Pls sign me up and communicate details on reimbursement aso.

/Warm Regards

Lars
 
The plan that is now brewing in my mind (I’m putting it out here for feedback) is to offer a whole new MDAC Mainboard that we would manufacture here in Europe thus insuring quality and consistency.

To help finance this endeavour I’m thinking upon the lines that say “50” perspective customers send instalments of GBP100 per month – and within 4 months (GBP400) we will be able to ship out upgrade boards (for simple DIY fit) – or I can upgrade units here in CZ as I’m currently doing – being a simple board swap it would be a much quicker process. It would also allow owners outside of Europe to upgrade there unit.

I would only need 50 commitments at GBP100 per month to go ahead and design a new replacement board incorporating the Toy / Fusion upgrades + all the juicy extras such as dual 9018’s (and DSD / 768Fs support if the consensus is to spend the extra GBP50 and month extra hardware development) – it would be a REFERENCE grade DAC (with all the lessons learnt from the current upgrades etc)… any interest or comments?

Yes the basic version (without the Toy/ Fusion resistor package) is around the same cost (£400 or £450 depending if its decided to go with the USB 24/96 of the current MDAC or the DSD/768Fs USB 2 option) + the extra if you wanted the fusion resistors fitted. To facilitate the development and component purchasing etc the payments would be spread over the 4 to 5 months...


Sounds like a good plan and terrific to me, I am also in ( swap+ extras pcb) ;-)

and yes, it would be nice if you give some instructions so we know how to proceed...

cost would be
450.- GBP for the swap + all extras pcb to JohnW and
50.- TOY or 350.- FUSION parts to hificollective

I could wait with no problem up to 1/2014.
perhaps MTRN and MPAX is ready at that time also. So the package from CS to GER could be bigger...

regards
f.s.
 
Hi John,

As a long time lurker on this thread, I was despairing at the long lead times for the mods and wondering if I'd ever get the chance to join in. So, the idea of a swapped-in replacement board is perfect. Count me in.

Would we still need to supply the bulk foil resistors ourselves going down this route?

Cheers John and thanks for what is already a great sounding DAC.

Patrick

SB Touch (EDO/usb) -> MDAC -> 41Hz Amp15-PS-XP -> Monitor Audio rs6
 
The plan that is now brewing in my mind (I’m putting it out here for feedback) is to offer a whole new MDAC Mainboard that we would manufacture here in Europe thus insuring quality and consistency. To allow us to meet the price targets we would purchase key “expensive” items in Asia – cheaper passive components etc would be purchased locally here in Europe.

As the PCB is built by SMD machine, labour is such a small part of the board cost we could still meet our price targets for the upgrades with a higher quality and more professional product.

To help finance this endeavour I’m thinking upon the lines that say “50” perspective customers send instalments of GBP100 per month – and within 4 months (GBP400) we will be able to ship out upgrade boards (for simple DIY fit) – or I can upgrade units here in CZ as I’m currently doing – being a simple board swap it would be a much quicker process. It would also allow owners outside of Europe to upgrade there unit.

You would be essentially getting a new product with only front panel, PSU and chassis reused from the original MDAC.

I’d go the full hog with the redesigned PCB, not only including the Toy / Fusion upgrades but include Dual pair of ESS9018’s, AV bypass and the potential for an extra say GBP50 and a months extra design effort to add Async USB to 768Fs!! and DSD support etc.

The first 20 or so customers who have paid the Toy / Fusion upgraded MDAC’s can then send them back to me here in CZ once the upgrade PCB is available and I’ll transplant the “Precious” Bulk Foil resistors onto the new MDAC PCB (the PCB will be design for both options) – for the cost price of the new PCB which I'm guessing at around GBP120…

This route has many advantages – not only is it a vastly better product without the restrictions of trying to add the modifications to the existing PCB, you have the DUAL ESS9018’s and the potential of DSD & 786Fs support with each unit tested and QC’ed by myself here in Europe – more importantly we would be helping the local European economy, shifting production back from China.

I would only need 50 commitments at GBP100 per month to go ahead and design a new replacement board incorporating the Toy / Fusion upgrades + all the juicy extras such as dual 9018’s (and DSD / 768Fs support if the consensus is to spend the extra GBP50 and month extra hardware development) – it would be a REFERENCE grade DAC (with all the lessons learnt from the current upgrades etc)… any interest or comments?
i would be interested in buying a new one for my next system, i don't know exacly when this will happend. if the new dac will work good for linux at 768Fs(using mint 14 atm) i am willing to support you finansially. the only excuse for not buying the fully upgraded unit would then be the price, so i am not sure that i would go for the Fusion version.

edit: since fusion only is £300 more expensive so i think i would go for that.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.


advertisement


Back
Top