MDAC first listen (part XXII)

[jirij]

Guess your thinking about using with MIMP?

Suggest you wait and we can have a listening session here and try various cables - I'm just as keen as you to find a cost effective - sensible solution

Yes, those are for MDAC<->MIMP connections, I'd like to combine them with Monitor Audio Bronze BX2, which themselves are considered (by some) somewhat problematic on brighter recordings in a neutral/brighter system. I guess the cable price isn't earth-shaking, so if they turn out to be problematic, I could probably sell them. I plan to use copper-only Van Damme Blue cable for MIMP<->speakers (~0.5m).

Though no problem with waiting as I still haven't ordered the speakers. I'm waiting for the MIMPs to come first, so I get full warranty on the speakers at the time I first connect them to the system, just in case there are any (manufacturing) problems.

 

[ilmostro749]

I made myself a 4m headphone extension lead using the Van Damme star-quad microphone cable and some Neutrik connectors. I can't tell any difference from when the headphones are plugged into the M-DAC direct, so it gets my thumbs up!

 

[Akasha]

Van Damme Blue[/url] cable

PVC !!! insulation I

I rest my case

 

[Asphaltradler]

The issue is present on Ubuntu 13.04 and is relevant to any system that uses the ehci driver, ie. all common desktops/laptops, basically anything x86-based. I have not yet confirmed that the problem happens on every controller (as I lack more hardware), but you can easily try booting Ubuntu 13.04 (live cd/usb) and playing something via the MDAC.

I'll try it with my current Dell notebook.
That means using Ubuntu 12.04 would be without problem?
And what do you mean with X86-based? Does that mean all Intel processors, or only 32 bit ones?

About buying a netbook - please start another thread, there are various factors and market changes every few months. The resulting discussion (with flamewar about SQ vs CPU power) would be mostly offtopic in this thread.

OK. Just thought someone here had mentioned his netbook before and couldn't find it again.

Thanks anyway, let's see if I get Ubuntu running on my Pentium M!

 

[jirij]

That means using Ubuntu 12.04 would be without problem?

It was without a problem few months back. As the breakage is (by others) considered a "fix" (for some other piece of hardware), it might pop in some 12.04.x update, if it hasn't already.

And what do you mean with X86-based? Does that mean all Intel processors, or only 32 bit ones?

Well, those that are x86-based, ie. both 32 and 64 bit versions, original x86 (32bit) and amd64 (also called x86_64 or x64 by windows, not to be confused with IA64). This includes vast majority of Intel and AMD processors, with some VIA ones on the side.
Again - if you think of any recent desktop or laptop, it's x86-based, including newer (post-2005) Apple stuff. Most tablets and smartphones are ARM-based, ultrabooks and netbooks being sort of in the middle (either x86-based or ARM-based).

Thanks anyway, let's see if I get Ubuntu running on my Pentium M!

Even if you decide to run 13.04, the mdac issue can be quite easily worked around (compared to the Synology) as Ubuntu has an easy tutorial for building your own kernel - there would be just one extra line, applying a patch provided by me. The only disadvantage would be non-automatic kernel updates.
Yeah, you can't do that on Windows 8, can you?

 

[DANOFDANGER]

Thanks john for replying, I went ahead and tested out the rca with headphones and noticed a difference compared to the headphone jack. I know I shouldn't as was stated the circuitry is the same, so going down the road to get some bits and pieces for proper testing.
Interesting.

For xlr wouldn't that have to be hardwired ?, I don't think you can benifit xlr from trs connection.

 

[misterdog]

I have just connected my Sennheiser HD600 via XLR to the M-DAC as John suggested.

Using Van Damme star quad cable and 4% silver solder. The cable contains only a few silver plated strands.
My cable guy suggested using 2 single Van Damme XKE installation cables, thereby giving a sheild to each channel, if only he mentioned this before I bought the starquad !!

Well several people said it would not work "there will be no volume" "or "there will be no bass"

It works a treat, clearer, cleaner, better (and my solder joints are not yet broken in ! )
I am listening at the same volume level -19 DB.

Test tracks The Wailin' Jennys- 40 days (thanks John for suggesting this, have you heard First Aid Kit- The Lions Roar ? similarly sublime vocal harmonies.)

So many thanks to John for 2 top tips

It has to be said that before, I was connecting my headphones using a 3M extension cable and I believe that the stock cable has only 3 cores (shared neutral).

 

[ocarolina]

Hi, I've been following this thread for a little while and was wondering if anyone who has heard both could describe the differences between a cdq and an mdac? (I ended up with the cdq after following the at last... thread, and love it, but was thinking about trying a few changes). Cheers, Nick.

 

[Wilky]

Hello Nick.

I have an Mdac and the CDQ, both are accomplished units - especially considering the cost.
You don't list the rest of your equipment and (possibly) there may be better gains to be had elsewhere.

TBH you need to try in your own system and make your own judgement.

There's no getting away that the Mdac edges the CDQ for it's ability to convey the extra details in most areas - hopefully I'll get to know how much better the standard unit compares to a modded L2 unit when I get to hear Laverda's on my ATC 100's.

Where are you and perhaps someone in your 'neck of the woods' can get you a demo of an Mdac or something else (BM HDR2)?


Dave.

 

[DANOFDANGER]

I have just connected my Sennheiser HD600 via XLR to the M-DAC as John suggested.

Using Van Damme star quad cable and 4% silver solder. The cable contains only a few silver plated strands.
My cable guy suggested using 2 single Van Damme XKE installation cables, thereby giving a sheild to each channel, if only he mentioned this before I bought the starquad !!

I assume because the headphones are wired as trs that you have to rewire the cable all the way up to the headphones for xlr ?, or is there 4 wires for L + - / R + - ?.

 

[misterdog]

Yes all the way- the mini headphone connectors are a shit to solder- but well worth it !!

(with the aid of some good magnifying lenses) lol.

The gain is probably from removing the trs (shared neutral) jack plug, though I used the sheild as a drain wire in the XLR.

Or maybe the small quantity of silver in the wire (ducks below parapet to avoid sniper fire !!)

JW suggested this is the way to go, he was right, (with Senn HD 600)

 

[jirij]

Test tracks The Wailin' Jennys- 40 days (thanks John for suggesting this

Seems to be John's favorite testing music

I was also considering rewiring my K702 as balanced (as John kind of suggested), but that would probably require another MDAC or some kind of high quality expensive XLR splitter/switch, neither of which I can really afford. Using TRRS in the place of the current TRS could perhaps work (with some rewiring inside the MDAC), but that's not really nice solution either.

 

[misterdog]

I don't profess to understand the ramifications of impedance etc.( I'm a cabinet maker) over the years I have been fooled by too many 'snake oil merchants'.

I like the suck it and see approach especially when it costs less than £50 (Yorkshire philosophy,allowing more to spend on single malt)

JW said it would work,his detractors said 'how' and I am now enjoying Joe Bonamassa/Beth Hart better than ever .

So cut off your trs plug and shove some XLR plugs on ( £6) and see, letting others debate the 'understanding'

I must state though that this works in my case it may not work for others !

 

[arthur]

Hi, I've been following this thread for a little while and was wondering if anyone who has heard both could describe the differences between a cdq and an mdac? (I ended up with the cdq after following the at last... thread, and love it, but was thinking about trying a few changes). Cheers, Nick.

Hi Nick.

If you're anywhere near the NE of E I'll be happy to pop round with my Mdac and let you compare the two.

 

[DANOFDANGER]

Yes all the way- the mini headphone connectors are a shit to solder- but well worth it !!

(with the aid of some good magnifying lenses) lol.

The gain is probably from removing the trs (shared neutral) jack plug, though I used the sheild as a drain wire in the XLR.

Or maybe the small quantity of silver in the wire (ducks below parapet to avoid sniper fire !!)

JW suggested this is the way to go, he was right, (with Senn HD 600)

Yes the gain would be from removing trs, if people just did a trs to xlr adapter you would have no gain over RCA.
Thanks for you info .

 

[jirij]

I don't profess to understand the ramifications of impedance etc.( I'm a cabinet maker) over the years I have been fooled by too many 'snake oil merchants'.

I like the suck it and see approach especially when it costs less than £50 (Yorkshire philosophy,allowing more to spend on single malt)

JW said it would work,his detractors said 'how' and I am now enjoying Joe Bonamassa/Beth Hart better than ever .

So cut off your trs plug and shove some XLR plugs on ( £6) and see, letting others debate the 'understanding'

I must state though that this works in my case it may not work for others !

On a second thought, I now get it! At least I think so. And it's very simple, which is what confused me. But it doesn't work unless the entire connection is rewired to have separate cold links, ie. it's not about replacing the TRS plug with XLR.

In a standard configuration with an alternating signal and a ground reference, everything's fine, clear and well understood. When you wire the balanced "+" and "-" to a speaker coil, nothing changes for the speaker itself - it still uses the "-" as a reference. With the "-" signal phase shifted by half the period, the difference of the "+" signal against the "-" reference is effectively doubled, but nothing else changed. That's why you can listen half the volume (as set on the MDAC) and still get the same level of output.

 

[misterdog]

As stated earlier I happily admit that I have no idea why, but I like it so I'll keep it !

Cable,XLR output, silver content,3rd glass of wine whatever the cause, the effect works for me.

We are not talking chalk and cheese because once you attain a certain level of performance, differences are only going to be small, but significant to the discerning.

Bobby Womack- The Bravest man in the Universe.

 

[JohnW]

Seems to be John's favorite testing music

I was also considering rewiring my K702 as balanced (as John kind of suggested), but that would probably require another MDAC or some kind of high quality expensive XLR splitter/switch, neither of which I can really afford. Using TRRS in the place of the current TRS could perhaps work (with some rewiring inside the MDAC), but that's not really nice solution either.

The headphones must have a 4 way connector - they cannot share a common Ground at the headset end.

The headphones that you brought over had a 3 Way Mini XLR (sadly you will not be able to used these Balanced without modifying this connector as well).

 

[laverda]

I'm awaiting delivery of XLR 1x4 and 2x3 way (noting plug or socket (£10.00)) and will be making up this balanced adaptation for my HD700s.

I should/hope be able to post some picks and a schematic that might/should help. In reality you just do not use the screen ground. Just the 'HOT' as + and the 'COLD' as the - per driver.....

 

[jirij]

The headphones must have a 4 way connector - they cannot share a common Ground at the headset end.

The headphones that you brought over had a 3 Way Mini XLR (sadly you will not be able to used these Balanced without modifying this connector as well).

My idea was to use TRRS on both ends. Modifying the headphones would take some work, but it's a job I can "easily" do. The problem would be TRS exchange with TRRS in the MDAC ... along with the possibility of a fried amp when somebody accidentaly plugs in TRS.
On a related note, 1/4" TRRS seems to be nonexistent, even though I'm sure I've seen it somewhere.

In conclusion, probably not worth the effort. Perhaps one day, I'll buy another MDAC. Or BDAC. Or drill two holes for additional XLRs on the back and connect them to the relays. Naah, just joking.