MDAC first listen (part XIX)

[anjora]

I am using dynavoice dm-5 budget speakers with ribbon tweeters rated to 32khz, i am not being able to measure the frequency reaponce. I will make sure my next speakers plays above 48khz. The reason i think many peaple fail to hear advandtage with samplingrate above 44.1kS/s is becuase of inferior speakers/recordings/electronics and not their hearing.

My current asus xonar stx dac supports 192kS/s and works flawlessly with linux, ofcourse i wan't that from my next dac aswell.

 

[Plutox]

I'd like to ask - if you're going to backport some A.08 features to A.11 - to reconsider excluding the playback stop/start on the mute button feature (when on USB), which was requested by some forum member, if I recall correctly

As the one who initially requested this feature, I have to say that the current feature-set is just right - it is logically correct and, if your player software follows the rules, what's the problem?

Those rules are, AFAIK, when playing a local file, pause when the hardware control says 'pause' OR, when playing a streaming feed over which you have no control, either buffer the stream (if you are able) or carry on regardless.

The real beauty of the feature as currently implemented is that the whole operation can be carried out from the MDAC remote, nice and simple. Don't complicate things unnecessarily!

 

[sq225917]

I am using dynavoice dm-5 budget speakers with ribbon tweeters rated to 32khz, i am not being able to measure the frequency reaponce. I will make sure my next speakers plays above 48khz. The reason i think many peaple fail to hear advandtage with samplingrate above 44.1khz is becuase of inferior speakers/recordings/electronics and not their hearing.

My current asus xonar stx dac supports 192khz and works flawlessly with linux, of course i want that from my next dac aswell.

The reason people don't hear above 20khz, is because it is 'PYSIOLOGICALLY IMPOSSIBLE' for them to hear any tone that is higher in frequency than the smallest hairs in their ear are capable of being stimulated by. So if you can hear above 20khz then there has to be a good physiological reason why, perhaps you have a genetic defect that makes the hairs in your ear, more supple, or greater in density than everyone else in the world has.

I suspect that the truth is far simpler. You can't hear up to 24khz unless it is so high in level that it is frying your skin and you are simply hearing some other artefact of your hifi system.

 

[arthur]

Yes - Fine, that's what I've used

Cheers John.

I don't trust my soldering ability on something so small, but until yours arrive I'll try to get someone with steadier hands to make some for me.

At the moment I'm listening at about -42 to -45

 

[Richard Kimber]

The reason people don't hear above 20khz, is because it is 'PYSIOLOGICALLY IMPOSSIBLE' for them to hear any tone that is higher in frequency than the smallest hairs in their ear are capable of being stimulated by. So if you can hear above 20khz then there has to be a good physiological reason why, perhaps you have a genetic defect that makes the hairs in your ear, more supple, or greater in density than everyone else in the world has.

I suspect that the truth is far simpler. You can't hear up to 24khz unless it is so high in level that it is frying your skin and you are simply hearing some other artefact of your hifi system.

Though I believe there has been some relatively recent brain scan research that indicates people can somehow detect when very high frequencies are being played to them. So the total audio experience may not just be down to ear hairs.

- Richard.

 

[Elviz]

I just re-run room calibration and I didn't detect any big changes in the frequency domain after installing the low pass filter to the nc400. There was a short debate that if it would help someone's MDAC+NC400 gear. I didn't have a problem to begin with.

There has been also many other little change since January (last time i ran room calibration), so it is hard to detect if the chances in frequency domain are because of the low pass filter or acoustical changes. So, didn't see any big bump of bass or anything like that (I thought I was detecting changes in bass frequencies after installing the filter). However, still created the new impulse response filters with 1-2dB lower bass levels and I find it totally adequate, which is weird.

Unfortunately I cba to retest without the low pass filter at the moment, since the filter is soldered to the xlr connectors inside the amp. And I cannot measure the HF response because my measurement microphone is far too unreliable at >10khz.

However, i am pretty sure that the combination sounds little smoother now, even tho there should be only <1dB difference at 10-20khz. Bright sounds are still bright too. I am probably gonna keep the low pass filter, since i don't have any 96k material, and there is a subtle change, which i seem to like. I think it is one of those things one has to try for himself/herself to hear the difference. Very subjective and easily negated with acoustics and speakers.

 

[jirij]

I am using dynavoice dm-5 budget speakers with ribbon tweeters rated to 32khz, i am not being able to measure the frequency reaponce. I will make sure my next speakers plays above 48khz. The reason i think many peaple fail to hear advandtage with samplingrate above 44.1khz is becuase of inferior speakers/recordings/electronics and not their hearing.

My current asus xonar stx dac supports 192khz and works flawlessly with linux, ofcourse i wan't that from my next dac aswell.

I believe you're mixing the frequency of the sound and the sampling frequency.

As the one who initially requested this feature, I have to say that the current feature-set is just right - it is logically correct and, if your player software follows the rules, what's the problem?

Those rules are, AFAIK, when playing a local file, pause when the hardware control says 'pause' OR, when playing a streaming feed over which you have no control, either buffer the stream (if you are able) or carry on regardless.

The real beauty of the feature as currently implemented is that the whole operation can be carried out from the MDAC remote, nice and simple. Don't complicate things unnecessarily!

Then, please, enlighten me how much sense two buttons doing the same thing make up for at least one broken use case.

 

[anjora]

I believe you're mixing the frequency of the sound and the sampling frequency.

i changed the unit to KS/s to make it clear what i meant. the maximum frequency output from my current dac should ofcoure be below 96khz. i wan't support for 192kS/s asyncronious, mdac only supports 96khz over usb atm.

 

[Plutox]

enlighten me how much sense two buttons doing the same thing make up for at least one broken use case.

I don't carry around with me the means to pause computer-playback other than the MDAC wand, which works perfectly in this respect.

Do you walk around with a means of remote-controlling your playback computer?

I really do not comprehend the logic of NOT wanting an elective mute to stop the music playback!

 

[jirij]

I don't carry around with me the means to pause computer-playback other than the MDAC wand, which works perfectly in this respect.

Do you walk around with a means of remote-controlling your playback computer?

I really do not comprehend the logic of NOT wanting an elective mute to stop the music playback!

My logic is that you can already pause the playback using the play/pause button. What's the point of wanting the mute button to do the same?

When I'm watching sports on an internet TV stream on a bigger screen with friends, I may want to just mute the sound when someone's having a phone call. I can do that by walking to the computer, grabbing the mouse, moving over the screen to the mute button on the player, .. or I can just press the big button on the remote in my pocket.
Or when using the MDAC for something else than playback, like video games - you can often go to the settings and slide the master volume down all the way, but it's much easier to just press mute. Without possible side effects caused by the play/pause button press (AFAIK some games utilize that).

But most importantly - there's already a button for play/pause, mute really has different meaning.

 

[Plutox]

What's the point of wanting the mute button to do the same?

Mute is a nice, big, prominent button.

 

[Wil_Wheaton]

Will the MDAC headphone output have any issue with 'high' impedance headphones e.g. Sennheiser HD 800 (300 Ohm Nominal Impedance).

 

[jirij]

Mute is a nice, big, prominent button.

But you basically just want to pause the playback, right? Your reason for the mute button pausing playback is "because it's easier to reach"?
Then perhaps an option "swap play/pause and mute button functions" would be best.
Another problem I'm having with the A.08 version is that if I pause the playback using the mute button and then stop it using the stop button in my player, MDAC ends up in an inconsistent state - it still sends play after unmute. Option to just swap the buttons would, I believe, satisfy your use case, while keeping the original for those, who want it (and by reactions here, I'm probably not the only one).

 

[DANOFDANGER]

I am using dynavoice dm-5 budget speakers with ribbon tweeters rated to 32khz, i am not being able to measure the frequency reaponce. I will make sure my next speakers plays above 48khz. The reason i think many peaple fail to hear advandtage with samplingrate above 44.1kS/s is becuase of inferior speakers/recordings/electronics and not their hearing.

My current asus xonar stx dac supports 192kS/s and works flawlessly with linux, ofcourse i wan't that from my next dac aswell.

I don't know the specifics but iv found that I can hear over 20khz on some bookshelfs iv had for years but on some high end senni headphones nothing above 18. So i instantly assume that its just some form of harmonics being emitted in the lower band or a crossover distortion giving me the impression that it is. That is what I am thinking is happening with you.

 

[supersilent]

The next time you experience the issue (there is activity on the MDAC screen i.e. the db bars are moving but no sound) try cycling the digital filters and let us know if this restores audio.

The MDAC should never powerup at -80dB* (unless it was set to -80dB just before being powered-off in the last session). We would need more information to better understand what's going on here... if your unit commonly powers-up at -80dB* then I'm inclined to suspect a hardware issues...

*Just a thought - insure that under the MDAC's Menu option the "USB Volume" option is set to "Deny Control" - if its set to "Accept Control" maybe the USB host device is setting the Volume to minimum upon each enumeration.

Hi JohnW

I have the same issues using SBT/EDO via USB. Cycling through the filters does not help. It seems the only way is to turn the MDAC off and on again.

When the problem occur and I select other inputs and then go back to the USB input the meters doesn´t move anymore and it says flushing buffer in the display.

I have my MDAC set at fixed volume now but remember it has been powering up at -80dB earlier.

Hope this is of some help.

All the best,
Terje Andresen

 

[EIffel]

supersilent,
My experience is similar to yours, with a similar setup (SBT/EDO, USB, isolator, hub)

- It doesn't happen all the time even when following the same power on sequence (MDAC, then SBT once the MDAC is up and running).
- There seem to be an error when the problem occurs (flushing buffer (3))
- Changing filters, or input doesn't fix the situation
- The buffer indicator doesn't move
- Sometimes the SBT resets itself (reboot), which unlock the situation
- Sometimes moving from streaming to a ripped CD track at a different sample frequency fixes the situation.

It seems that rebooting the SBT after the MDAC is powered on fixes the issue, although in a not so elegant way.

 

[JTC]

Will the MDAC headphone output have any issue with 'high' impedance headphones e.g. Sennheiser HD 800 (300 Ohm Nominal Impedance).

No. That's what i use. Perhaps an expensive dedicated head amp costing more than the MDAC *might* add a little more heft to proceedings, but I'd be surprised if you find the MDAC lacking with the HD800s...

 

[GrumpyOldMan]

What the whole Mute thing boils down to is that a computer connected to the M-DAC most likely does NOT have a remote with a play/pause button available, and M-DAC & associated remote can provide that functionality by sending the appropriate message to the computer via USB. (You could disable USB control, and the Mute button will simply mute the sound on the M-DAC, without interfering with the computer playback, streaming or other.)

UPDATE after I dusted of the remote: I see now that the remote's play/pause button works as well, and thus indeed makes the mute button's pause function a bit redundant... when using the remote! In my case though, since I use the front buttons, just pressing the volume knob to both mute & pause when somebody walks up to me is very convenient indeed. It never occurred to me this might be an issue.

It also does makes sense in terms to have two separate buttons (again, on the remote only) available to "mute" the sound, regardless of the source device's ability to respond to a play/pause command, so I definitely wouldn't make them "swappable" since they serve different purposes.

Mostly, what I still don't understand is why some seem to be so set against giving users a CHOICE in the matter of Mute vs. Mute & Pause, if implementable (as per my previous post). You're not the only M-DAC owner...

 

[simonom]

If that can be implemented, then great; if not, FWIW, I'm with Jirij on this issue.

 

[gh0st]

Will the MDAC headphone output have any issue with 'high' impedance headphones e.g. Sennheiser HD 800 (300 Ohm Nominal Impedance).

shouldn't do, I drive 600ohm Beyer T1 and they really sing, very little in it between the MDAC and a seriously hot-rodded OTL valve amp I built to drive them... /dom