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MDAC first listen (part XIV)

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Trojka said:
I like this M-DAC so much that I would like to investigate the 'M-DAC as a pre, connected to a power amp' path. Just occurred to me I haven't introduced myself properly here. I'm 38 but relatively new to the hifi world (although I have to admit this is my fourth DAC). Currently the M-DAC is connected to a Denon PMA-1500AE, which is biwired to B&W CM7's. I can switch the Denon to power amp mode, but when I do I hear quite some hiss coming from the tweeters (even without a connected M-DAC). Is this normal for power amps? Also, for normal listening the M-DAC pre is at -45 to -40dB. Seems a little low to me? I did like the sound though, it seemed more balanced in the lows and more alive/airier in the higher frequencies. What I also liked was the very precise volume control. It's very hard finding the right balance with the Denon volume. It's either too soft or too loud.

Anyway, I've decided a dedicated power amp might be better. The only reason I still have an integrated amp is because I still play a few SACD's now and then. I think I don't mind recording the SACD's in my recording studio on my RME Multiface II in 24/96, and stream everything in the future with my SBT :)

So I was wondering, who is using a Audiolab 8200P with the M-DAC here? WAD62 I believe? I like the look, and obviously I'm turning into a Audiolab fan. :D Any people biamping with two?

As a newbie, it's a bit unclear to me what all the MPAX, BDAC etc talk is all about. Is it something I should wait for, considering my decision?
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Trojka,

I don't rate the Audiolab range of amplifiers - and there's very little sub US$1000 I would....

I don't want to appear to be promoting our pending MAMP - but these are designed to work very well with the MDAC - I'd suggest waiting for the chance to listen to the MAMP - the MAMP also has a separate AV / Analogue input and automatic gain scaling (automatically selected via the MDAC) for optimal system performance.
 
misterdog said:
BDAC is a new DAC John is designing for Creek Audio.
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The BDAC is our code name for a platform of DAC designs - not only for Creek Audio - you could see variations of the BDAC platform from other manufacturers.

Originally at the start of development, BDAC stood for budget DAC (or B grade Dac depending on your perspective :) ) but being as I am, its grown to quite a beast and I got the feeling its going to upset the apple cart..

misterdog said:
Which 'should' have better sound quality than the stock MDAC but be bettered by MDAC with MPAX.
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Wish I could be so certain, I’ve a horrid feeling that the BDAC will sound better then MDAC with MPAX – which is not good a good start for our M-PAX plans… time will soon tell…
 
mbaudis said:
1. Is there a way to get on a MAMP pre-order list? Though I understand that the timeline is somewhat fluent, I rather wouldn't want to hang out daily on PFM - can get distracting ...

2. Heresy: Since the transport mechanism is, nowadays, in some people's opinions, not a big factor => wouldn't it be nice, and I just ask that very cautiously, to use a blu-ray mechanism? Shouldn't there be options of such which allow clock-locking? And probably some simple associated boards for the video out? Etc.

For point 2: I just got a Samsung BD-ES6000, which is a small form factor (19cm), display-less BDP. I don't care about the online etc. stuff it comes with, but just pipe the HDMI to the beamer, and the optical to the MDAC. So, my setup of choice would be MacMini (SSD...), BD-Transport, MDAC, MAMP ... (Actually, since I convert all CDs to ALAC anyway, the clock-locking of the transport wouldn't be of interest to me, but lets stick to the script...).

Just saying: People here seem to love posting pictures of their big black HDTVs, with an MDAC under it ...
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Mbaudis,

I still owe you a apology for letting you down with the MDAC adaptor , I was a little upset about what you wrote – but climbing down off my soap box and being a little more humble – I’m sorry…

You should confirm the digital output of your Samsung BD-ES6000 is bit accurate, burn a CD of the MDAC’s bit accurate test and confirm…

I’ll open an MAMP pre-order list closer to the time…
 
arthur said:
It might be worth waiting for Lakewest's M-amp.. Should be a bit special.

As for the hiss and the -40dB setting, a pair of attenuators will sort that out. Try -20dB if you can find them.

Ps, if you like the sound better with the M-dac into the power amp section then attenuators are the way to go.
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Hi Arthur,

I don't believe attenuators will solve the hiss problem as the Hiss is still present without the MDAC connected - it sounds like the background hiss of the amplifier itself - which is normal for almost all amplifier designs if you press your ear against the speakers tweeter.
 
JohnW said:
The BDAC is our code name for a platform of DAC designs - not only for Creek Audio - you could see variations of the BDAC platform from other manufacturers.

Originally at the start of development, BDAC stood for budget DAC (or B grade Dac depending on your perspective :) ) but being as I am, its grown to quite a beast and I got the feeling its going to upset the apple cart..



Wish I could be so certain, I’ve a horrid feeling that the BDAC will sound better then MDAC with MPAX – which is not good a good start for our M-PAX plans… time will soon tell…
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This is really interesting, because I was also assuming the M-DAC + M-PAX would be much better than the B-DAC. Now BDAC sounds very attractive to me! I may need another DAC anyway :p
 
JohnW said:
Hi Hluga,

So all week and your units been perfect... I fully believe you had an issue, it just goes to show how hard it can be for the production line to weed out troublesome units like this... its a fact of life...

I'll make some modifications to the Relay drive circuit - increasing the Drive current and voltage - hopefully this will solve the issue - obviously I'm troubled that I've been able to recreate the issue on the lab bench...
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My unit is on a shelf with nothing on top nor 10 cm around on left and right. Moreover the first tile i noticed the issue i wasnt at home and the unit sits on a table. Have you tried the jack insertion/release when unit is "cold" (less than half an hour of operation) ?
As has been mentioned here already, the best place for EQ would be via the PC's audio player... If you find an EQ or post processing that works well then let us know and we will see if we can implement in into the hardware...
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As it wrote previously i use DEQ for that purpose but the link mac->deq->mdac seems less natural than mac->mdac. As i use audirvana i am not able to apply any eq during playing but the software really make a good job and gives the records more clarity than iTunes imo.

I've read that my unit would enter surgery today. Many thanks !!!
 
JohnW said:
Hi Arthur,

I don't believe attenuators will solve the hiss problem as the Hiss is still present without the MDAC connected - it sounds like the background hiss of the amplifier itself - which is normal for almost all amplifier designs if you press your ear against the speakers tweeter.
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Aha! That'll teach me to offer advice from a position of ignorance then :(

I assumed the hiss was from excessive gain. I R cabbage.
 
JohnW said:
Hi Arthur,

I don't believe attenuators will solve the hiss problem as the Hiss is still present without the MDAC connected - it sounds like the background hiss of the amplifier itself - which is normal for almost all amplifier designs if you press your ear against the speakers tweeter.
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True, I was standing too close to the speakers. I'm a bit over sensitive to it also, as I've battled hiss and hum problems a lot during the past 25 years in my (home) recording studio. From couch position, the hiss is inaudible. :)
 
Intermittent loss of output
Very interested to see the problem here being discussed between hluga and JW. I see jonathanmueller has also had a similar problem. It seems to be the same issue that I have and I am very interested to hear if it is resolvable or is it necessary to return the unit to Audiolab (a major hassle for me since I bought the unit in Derby but am living in Germany).
The problem I have is intermittent with lack of output (affecting RCAs and headphone), while the screen continues to work, the db meters on the screen respond to the music input signal. This occurs on more than 50% of power ups (cold MDAC), and is quickly apparent because -80db volume setting is also indicated. I have normally been able to overcome it by repeatedly powering off then on again using the power switch, when the unit boots properly it can either return the previous volume setting or starts off at -80. Cycling the headphone out relays has never helped. Normally once running it is fine but 3 times now the problem has actually interrupted playback when, with a loud crack, the output stops. After the most recent of these I was only able to recover the functioning by a hard reset using the power connection on the rear. Note, one of these events appeared to coincide with powering up my satellite receiver, by ir control, so I was wondering about power supply perturbations, but it has not been repeatable so maybe just a co-incidence.
I would very much like to hear if anyone has overcome this problem..
 
JohnW said:
I don't want to appear to be promoting our pending MAMP - but these are designed to work very well with the MDAC - I'd suggest waiting for the chance to listen to the MAMP - the MAMP also has a separate AV / Analogue input and automatic gain scaling (automatically selected via the MDAC) for optimal system performance.
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Hey, I don't mind....why wouldn't you promote your pending MAMP? :D

It sounds great to my ears. Gives me time to save some money too....any idea yet how much?
 
JohnW said:
Sorry for being absent from the forum, guess what, late on the BDAC design... :rolleyes:

The Modifications involves working on a 4 layer PCB and removing and replacing SMD components and Hand soldering onto IC legs of the ESS DAC, its really a horrid job, one I don't relish - tomorrow I work on Sam's and Hulga units...

The modification is not something that I believe can be done without guidance and experience with SMD rework.
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John, you have nothing to apologize for. Your continual presence and help on this forums is much appreciated and i'm definitely very grateful for your support. I feel quite sad not being able to get my mdac sovereign-ed

JohnW said:
Replacing the MDAC's external "Transformer" with a multi-rail DC input from a linear supply would be beneficial.
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Very good to know!

JohnW said:
Even with an MDAC in standard from you can use with DC input, the "DC" modifications I perform are just to optimise the MDAC's internal PSU for use with external DC input - separating the power feed to the Left and Right channels and adding extra Ground returns.

John
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Great news, so i can go ahead and build that 15v linear supply? Okay, i guess that's at least some consolation for me since i'm not able to get my mdac sovereign-ed :( :p
 
JohnW said:
Trojka,

I don't rate the Audiolab range of amplifiers - and there's very little sub US$1000 I would....
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Or buy one of these ex display for US$1000
as2000_lr-construction.jpg


Fully balanced, 27KG ! balanced digital volume control (not sure how that works in an analogue amp ?) 0.01 % THD.
and solid timber sides.
Sounds heavenly to me.
 
Indeed, I still use the CA 1000 its design was based on that I bought in the 1970's in my workshop.
 
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