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MDAC First Listen (part 00111010)

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The best option would be no real interest in the Bare-bones MDAC2, but with the transformers costing GBP350 + VAT, obviously costs have escalated...

The transformers are the audio output transformers and premium quality transformers (a very custom design) do not come cheap...

Its been very painful to developing these transformers, with each spin costing over GBP400. Off the top of my head I can count about 8 spins... that's over GBP3000 in transformer prototypes... I'll be happy when this project is finally over..!

Transformers?
Are these for the Turntable / RIAA users only?
Or are these general PS transformers?
Or something else?
If this also for the tube stage users?
 
Transformers?
Are these for the Turntable / RIAA users only?
Or are these general PS transformers?
Or something else?
If this also for the tube stage users?
If I have understood their use in the DAC correctly it is for attenuation like in a passive preamp where the most expensive part is the transformers.
We are talking preamp prices in the range of £2000-£6000.
So their function is not the same as the tubes so we can still have tubes :cool:
 
John, are the transformers on the new board, are they output transformers, or are they what is going to power the new Dac?

You should just try and keep it simple for yourself! Why make a whole raft of different specs.

ie...

1. MDAC 2 Pack, board, display, panels, done.
2. All singing all dancing FDAC with tubes/chassis etc.
Yes please keep it simple
The essential problem is one of cost - especially in regards to the Advanced clock options, there has been a huge development effort with the clock sections and they have advanced well beyond anything I would have considered when I started the design ( guess the same can be said for the whole design - streamer section etc).

The second issue is I'm not sure WHEN I can offer the full blown FDAC chassis option - with the custom chassis being the stumbling block... so I want to offer as many options as possible within the MDAC chassis as this is feasible in the near-term without the difficulty of sourcing the chassis.

We also need to consider the software aspects, I cannot support two branches of software maintenance and development, so the absolutely bare-bones MDAC which will reuse the existing MDAC front panel will be a onetime affair with no future software development / enhancements, this unit is ONLY offered to meet the lowest cost.

To "Finance" the UI driven front panel for the "proper" MDAC2 and FDAC I've stuck a deal with a local company - I'll introduce them to vendors and suppliers in China (Taking them around China etc.) in exchange, as a form of payment they will develop the FDAC / MDAC2 UI... So I've sold my soul having to return to China for a week or two and in exchange I get the Ui software :) - yes I feel cheap :D

Ignoring the Software development costs, the new front panel adds about GBP200 (the display alone is GBP110 + VAT) - hence the reason there cannot be a common display if there is to be a real bare-bones costed down version.

The best option would be no real interest in the Bare-bones MDAC2, but with the transformers costing GBP350 + VAT, obviously costs have escalated...

The transformers are the audio output transformers and premium quality transformers (a very custom design) do not come cheap...

Its been very painful to developing these transformers, with each spin costing over GBP400. Off the top of my head I can count about 8 spins... that's over GBP3000 in transformer prototypes... I'll be happy when this project is finally over..!
All these speculations on different versions to meet as low a price point as possible makes little sense until we have one finished version that is in production.
Why not just focus on getting one version finished.
When we see that with the new display then it might turn out that there is no demand for the lower spec versions.
It is all to abstract for many here to be willing to accept the higher price. But that might change :)

And if there is still someone wanting the absolute bargain basement version then it is the DEV DAC+ which actually sound closer to what the initial promised MDAC was supposed to be.
Personally I am delighted with what the development has evolved into a discrete DAC with transformers and inbuilt streamer. (only think I do not like is MDAC chassis and that there is no finished version)
 
What is wrong with the un-modified MDAC?

I have one ... that followed a Naim DAC V1, ... and a small host of cheaper USB DACs ...

Just asking.

Best wishes from George
 
Yes please keep it simple

All these speculations on different versions to meet as low a price point as possible makes little sense until we have one finished version that is in production.
Why not just focus on getting one version finished.
When we see that with the new display then it might turn out that there is no demand for the lower spec versions.
It is all to abstract for many here to be willing to accept the higher price. But that might change :)

And if there is still someone wanting the absolute bargain basement version then it is the DEV DAC+ which actually sound closer to what the initial promised MDAC was supposed to be.
Personally I am delighted with what the development has evolved into a discrete DAC with transformers and inbuilt streamer. (only think I do not like is MDAC chassis and that there is no finished version)

Rune,

All versions are based on the same PCB just different component population + extra software where required.

Only interfacing to the standard MDAC front panel will require extra hardware + software hence why it will be offered later to those who are really cost sensitive.

If you start with the FDAC build MDAC2 PCB initially installed an MDAC chassis then it can be transferred to the Full FDAC chassis once its available.
 
What is wrong with the un-modified MDAC?

I have one ... that followed a Naim DAC V1, ... and a small host of cheaper USB DACs ...

Just asking.

Best wishes from George

For the original selling price and the standard of DAC's of the day, nothing :) but things have progressed since then... its a 2009 design...

The MDAC2 / FDAC PCB is a competently different class product with some very unique technology's - which remains to be decided by my peers if it results in improved sound quality which is all that matters at the end of the day :)

I also have a real problem with the ultimate sound quality of ESS DAC's... hence last years major change of design direction to the discrete DD2A technology (Direct Digital to Analogue).
 
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I suppose that it must just be me, but I find the quality of the unaltered MDAC to be an ideal realised - a sort of possible pinnacle to date in digital conversion. In fact I'd put it alongside any DAC or CD player [that I have had the chance to use] and I would be hard put to find any obvious fault with the MDAC afterwards.

I found the Chords Hugo for example much less close the ideal.

On the other hand the best source is, in my humble opinion, still a good live relay on Radio Three.

ATB from George
 
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I suppose that it must just be me, but I find the quality of the unaltered MDAC to be an ideal realided - a sort of possible pinnacle to date in digital conversion. In fact I'd put it alongside any DAC or CD player [that I have had the chance to use] and I would be hard put to find any obvious fault with the MDAC afterwards.

I found the Chords Hugo for example much less close the ideal.

On the other hand the best source is, in my humble opinion, still a good live relay on Radio Three.

ATB from George
George

You are very late to this party and nothing you have to say is relevant in context.
 
Dear Cav,

I dipped into this thread out of curiosity about a thing that has 49 pages of posts!

I was wondering how anyone could still be posting about the first listen to an MDAC!

Then I read that the discussion is about something that apparently has not yet been made!

I quite agree that there is nothing I can sensibly add in a thread about modifications to what is already one of the best sorted and well sounding, and useful DACs in production today.

So please excuse my arriving late. I'll leave now, and hopefully nobody has been offended!

ATB from George
 
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For the original selling price and the standard of DAC's of the day, nothing :) but things have progressed since then... its a 2009 design...

The MDAC2 / FDAC PCB is a competently different class product with some very unique technology's - which remains to be decided by my peers if it sounds better :)
I suppose that it must just be me, but I find the quality of the unaltered MDAC to be an ideal realided - a sort of possible pinnacle to date in digital conversion. In fact I'd put it alongside any DAC or CD player [that I have had the chance to use] and I would be hard put to find any obvious fault with the MDAC afterwards.

I found the Chords Hugo for example much less close the ideal.

On the other hand the best source is, in my humble opinion, still a good live relay on Radio Three.

ATB from George

George,

Very glad that the MDAC still can hold its own :) MDAC2 will be the next step change :)
 
Dear Cav,

I dipped into this thread out of curiosity about a thing that has 49 pages of posts!


So please excuse my arriving late. I'll leave now, and hopefully nobody has been offended!

ATB from George
George

this is the 58th thread on this topic which started 5 (?) years ago and must in total have 3000+ posts.
 
Harsh! There a a few people who’s lives are evidently so empty that they have nothing better to do than sh*t stir on this thread. George does not appear to be one of those people.
I am not sure what I said to George, who evidently is years late to mdacgate, can be construed as shit stirring -that is a statement not an invitation to an argument, btw.
 
I am not sure what I said to George, who evidently is years late to mdacgate, can be construed as shit stirring -that is a statement not an invitation to an argument, btw.

George is a guy who loves his music, and loves his (sometimes single) Quad. He’s not a combatant in this saga. Ask him about something to do with classical music, and he’ll answer. He’s the kind of guy that hi-fi should be about.
 
Harsh! There a a few people who’s lives are evidently so empty that they have nothing better to do than sh*t stir on this thread. George does not appear to be one of those people.

Totally Agree - I only see that George has been nothing but polite and genuinely interested, I see no malice in his post :)
 
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