MDAC First Listen (part 00111010)

[gints]

I feel everything went south when idea of inbuild streamer was introduced. Can we blame only John for it?

 

[misterdog]

Three months means next year, so put something else in that space.

The exact wording was 'within three months', attention to detail counts or possibly not in this case.

As there appear to be no cases

 

[misterdog]

There was always an implicit degree of risk here with no cast iron guarantee of an end product

I might disagree with you on that.

 

[misterdog]

I feel everything went south when idea of inbuild streamer was introduced. Can we blame only John for it?

Yes.

 

[misterdog]

All that was required for MDAC 2 was a 5 rail super reg PSU as the SQ increase is huge.

Though this would require a PSU case bigger than the MDAC.

I have done it and I had to look up which way round a resistor was orientated 5 years ago, such was my lack of basic electronic knowledge.

 

[paulski]

I might disagree with you on that.

Which part?

 

[Rune]

No the streamer has always been a good idea. It makes perfect sense to have the DAC and streamer in the same box. (preferably FWC)

It is the reuse of MDAC chassis / trying to cram it into a small box that is the root and a "some" scope creep.

I think that DevDAC2 incl AV bypass would probably deliver most of what was initially promised at a price point for those on a budget.

Personally I am exited about the prospect of the discrete DAC with transformers. But not the waiting of cause.

 

[Stunsworth]

Paul, with all due respect, I don't think it's up to you to tell people what to do and telling people to STFU isn't helpful. If that's the best you can offer I'd suggest you leave this thread well alone.
If people want to have a pop at John about what has happened to their £3k+ they've invested then as far as I'm concerned they are perfectly entitled to do so - certainly not your place to tell them what to do.

Well, you’ve now been removed from the Facebook group for reposting John’s comments here.

 

[Sibbers]

Well, you’ve now been removed from the Facebook group for reposting John’s comments here.

Damn. Viewed as a detractor for telling financial supporters answers to their questions.

Does anyone have an idea of the total sum involved?
Keith

Honestly I can’t even remember what I paid but it was either 3 or 4 hundred quid. Whatever the rate was for the second tier FDAC.

There were a bunch of people who would have paid more for the version with the ADC and then there are those who paid for the Detox, the streamer, and most of all would be the people who were convinced there would be a state of the art amplifier following soon after. They would be in for £3k or more.

I don’t know how many people have gone in but it’s gotta be 200+ based on the story about the minimum orders for the detox.

 

[killie99]

Well, you’ve now been removed from the Facebook group for reposting John’s comments here.

Well, there you have it. He didn't even have the manners to send me a message to tell me he was banning me or the reason for it.
Has anyone else been banned for reposting from the Facebook group as it's been done many times before?

John has my money and I have no way of contacting him, he's stated many times he doesn't come here to read posts.

Shame on you John, shame on you.

Can anyone tell me if my posts have been removed from the Facebook group or are they still there?

 

[Stunsworth]

I don’t know how many people have gone in but it’s gotta be 200+ based on the story about the minimum orders for the detox.

I think it's less than that. There used to be a page listing the participants, but I've not been able to find it. I think it was somewhere between 100 and 150, though I'm not certain about that.

 

[Sibbers]

I think you’re right. I recalled 250 being the leftover number, but actually it’s 120 from an order of 250. Therefore, 130 plus anyone who didn’t want a detox.

 

[JohnW]

Killie99 (Stuart Littlejohn)

I posted this yesterday on the closed FB group:-

"I've just had to take a very sad action and the first for me - I've removed Stuart Littlejohn from this private group - not because of his posts here - everyone has a right to ask questions and express disappointment where due - but his actions to take communications from here and cause trouble on PFM.

It really saddens me to have had to take such action - and I'm sorry that Stuart Littlejohn felt it necessary to act like this.

I believe there is a good chance to have the Prototype MDAC2 PCB's ready within the next 3 months - but, I don't need to have extra pressure like this - I tried to explain to Stuart Littlejohn as clearly as I could the development goal posts ahead - I'm not sure what more I can say - but I know what needs to be done, and too that end I'm focused on getting the Clock circuit completed as the next development milestone."

As I stated in my post I have no problem with you asking questions and expressing your frustrations with the delays - this is totally understandable, but what I object to is then using my posts to cause trouble over here on PFM.

I was unable to give you firm completions times, but did go into much effort explaining the remaining design tasks on the Analogue PCB - and thus a clear list that can be ticked off as tasks are completion. The intention is that as we near the designs completion to update everyone as I complete these last few remaining tasks - it will be apparent to all how the design is progressing. What I CANNOT do is give a firm timescale which you KEPT insisting on.

My best guess is 3 months - I'd like to see less, but I'll see how it goes. I also posted yesterday that the clock section is coming along nicely - so maybe the Clock section can be completed say within 2 weeks - leaving the array PSU's as the last remaining complex section to design - then there are a few small house keeping sections (such as relay drivers, Modulator / Daughter board connections / connector etc. but these are not complex so will take a week or two to complete.

Again, I repeat the Clock and Array PSU being the two major design task to complete - then onto the a few house keeping circuits then to issue the Analogue PCB. I'm about 50% complete on the Clock section.

WRT future communications, I will forward my Email in a PM.

I have not removed your posts on the Closed group - as I say I have no issue with you asking questions / expressing your feelings - but its poor form to take communications from the closed group and try to cause trouble here on PFM.

Every sponsor is welcome to join the FB group - and in fact about 95% have, as I say sadly your the first person I had to remove and I still feel a pit in my stomach for needing to take such action - I'm not the kind of person that takes such actions lightly.

As your removed from the FB group where updates are posted - I'll Email you (Please reply with your Email address to my PFM PM) as each design goal is completed so your are kept abreast of the project progress.

 

[JohnW]

WRT MDAC2 MOQ (Minimum order Qtys)- there is no Chassis required for the MDAC2 as we reuse the original MDAC chassis -the new rear panel is CNC'ed from flat sheet as opening tooling is not an option for the low numbers of Pcs. required.

There are no plans of selling the MDAC2 outside of the original sponsor units - the PCB's will be personally manufactured by myself so there is no MOQ.

 

[hluga]

http://mdac2.referata.com/wiki/Main_Page

 

[adamdea]

I feel everything went south when idea of inbuild streamer was introduced. Can we blame only John for it?

The short answer is yes 100%.

 

[JohnW]

For those sponsors not following the closed FB group, here's the final rendering of the MDAC2 rear panel - this is the FINAL design iteration.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/qxpqh100mhibsdf/render4.JPG?dl=0

Upper PCB (Digital board):-

SMA WiFi / Bluetooth Antenna (fitted only to units with internal Streamer option)

SPDIF Input (BNC)

Optical Input #1

Optical Input #2

Optical Output (SPDIF / Clock-Lock for Detox etc).

SPDIF Input / Output (BNC)

Master / Slave Expansion connector (interfaces to VFET / FDAC / Second MDAC2)

USB input

The following installed on units with Streamer option:-

HDMI Video Output

USB Host port #1 (for USB Thumb drive, HDD, CD /DVD drive, Keyboard / Mouse / Touch Screen etc)

USB Host port #2 (for USB Thumb drive, HDD, CD /DVD drive, Keyboard / Mouse / Touch Screen etc)

Ethernet port

Lower Analogue board:-

9Way D Power connector - an adapter cable will be proved for use with standard MDAC power brick - but re-arranged pinning for user PSU upgrades.

Right Channel Single-end output

Right Channel Balanced Output

Right Channel AV Bypass input

SE headphone Output

Balanced Headphone Output

2x SMA Balanced pair Master clock Link (Master / Slave support)

Left Channel AV Bypass input

Left Channel Balanced Output

Left Channel Single-end output

 

[gints]

I am talking about streamer idea, not that seperate add on board, a long time before that. Was not there many sponsors who was so excited - we want it, we want it. It took lot of time to investigate different hardware and software platforms. Idea of streamer is good, of course, just at wrong time. I think he started to design dac from scratch at that point. It was slowing project more that any other wish for extra features. There was many requests for new features, everybody was entusiastic about this new universal dac, yes, John as well and encourage it. It was pushed too far. And before we droping everything on one man we should make a step back and look at ourselves too.

 

[sam_cat]

For the question asked earlier, previous versions of the project site are held on the internet archive here:

https://web.archive.org/web/20140717213005/http://mdac2.lakewestaudio.com

You can see dates of site changes and see what the site looked like at each point. The one linked above is the first iteration of the site:

Project roadmap

Before presenting the planned project schedule, it is important to stress that any timeframes given are only our best estimates and cannot be relied upon completely. We are undertaking development of the very best DAC possible and that is the primary goal which necessarily takes precedence to meeting any self-inflicted deadlines. After all what good is a DAC delivered on time, but knowingly crippled? That said, let’s look at the milestones and projected timeframes and the related installment payment schedule.

Stage 1 (First £100 installment)

• Beginning of September ’13 – Official start of the project.

• End of September ’13 – Completed circuit design and simulations of new analogue stage and power supply circuitry.

• Beginning of October ’13 – Start of prototype PCB layout to verify the newly developed analogue and PSU circuits.

• End of October ’13 – Prototype PCB design finished and manufacturing data issued to PCB vendor.

Stage 2 (Second £100 installment)

• Middle of November ’13 – Prototype PCB built, tested and qualified on the bench, starting design of the MDAC2 mainboard.

• End of January ’14 – MDAC2 mainboard design finished and manufacturing data issued to PCB vendor.

Stage 3 (Third £100 installment)

• End of February ’14 – MDAC2 mainboard prototype built, tested and qualified

Stage 4 The final stage “Production unit cost” £150 ~ £200 + optional Vishay Z-foil resistors + shipping etc.

• Beginning of March ’14 – placing orders for production quantities of material. Owners of Level 2 upgraded MDAC’s only get to pay the final installment that covers the production and shipping costs of the new Mainboard

• End of March ’14 – first MDAC2 mainboards coming off the production line

 

[sam_cat]

For those sponsors not following the closed FB group, here's the final rendering of the MDAC2 rear panel - this is the FINAL design iteration.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/qxpqh100mhibsdf/render4.JPG?dl=0

I like the look of that!