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MDAC First Listen (part 00111010)

Discussion in 'audio' started by JohnW, Jun 9, 2018.

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  1. JohnW

    JohnW pfm member

    The streamer is still an option - but it needs to be specified at order as its integrated into the main Digital PCB - The streamer section cannot be added as a retrofit without ordering a completed Digital PCB. After the initial PFM build we have NO further production planned - so its really a one time order.

    So just to repeat the Streamer is STILL an option, but its not a separate PCB so needs to be ordered at the time of production.
  2. pdes

    pdes pfm Member

    Almost 5 years ago, I had a problem with my MDAC which was just out of warranty. I discovered this project and signed upon the understanding that the MDAC2 was just around the corner. After around three years, I somewhat tongue in cheek, suggested that as John was talking to "customers", the contributers to the project should benefit from any deal to supply commercially. I was shot down in flames by John's devotees for making such an outrageous suggestion. I wonder if he still has such vociferous supporters.

    At the time I signed up, I was in a well paid job but now, as such a long time has passed, I have gone into retirement and my financial situation has changed. Even if the project does ever get completed, which I doubt it will, I will not be able to afford to pay any final amount.

    As far as I am concerned, this has been a disgraceful con designed to fund John's hobby and set him up in business with state of the art manufacturing capabilities. If it was a UK based setup, I would have been filling out the court papers three years ago. No legitimate business or crowd funded project would be able constantly move the deadlines and change the parameters for which the original payments were made. I did not sign up to fund any other project that took John's fancy or trips around the world to trade fairs and the like.

    So, if anyone wants to buy out my "share" PM me as I'm outta here.
    adamdea, LarsS, BE718 and 2 others like this.
  3. JohnW

    JohnW pfm member


    I'd be happy to repair your MDAC for free + once the MDAC2 DD2A is ready for production pass on your development funding to a third party if theirs interest (I don't plan on accepting any new orders, only passing on unwanted development sponsors positions). I can then pass any development payment you have made onto you - minus the Paypal fees.
    simonom likes this.
  4. wintoid

    wintoid pfm Member

    Aug 27th we were waiting for a quote from the Detox chassis vendor. Have they come back yet?
    LarsS and HarryB like this.
  5. AndyU

    AndyU pfm Member

    You should give the guy his money back. And you should do it now. You sold him something you have no intention of delivering. He needs the money. Other investors are happy with infinite project creep and failed promises. Fine. Keep their money. But this guy can not afford it. Give him his money back. You tell him that you would be happy to pass on his position when the MDAC2 is ready for production. But you might as well tell him to F off. The MDAC2 will never be ready for production. Give him his money back. He cannot afford to lose it.
    BE718, wyjsar and HarryB like this.
  6. sq225917

    sq225917 Bit of this, bit of that

  7. adamdea

    adamdea You are not a sound quality evaluation device

    Or perhaps one of those people who do not think they have been ripped off, and that the bestest dac ever is just around the corner, would like to buy out his position. It’s a no-brainer surely.
    BE718 and HarryB like this.
  8. killie99

    killie99 pfm Member

    So, I asked over a week ago on the Lakewest facebook page for a **realistic MDAC2 delivery date*** as John reads the Facebook page rather than on here (his words, not mine).
    No reply.
    BE718, HarryB and wintoid like this.
  9. Stunsworth

    Stunsworth pfm Member

    I’ve given up. We all knew there was a risk and to be honest I wouldn’t have a problem if John told us he’d had to abandon the project. At least then we’d know where we stood.
    BE718 likes this.
  10. russel

    russel ./_dazed_and_confused

    I don't know what the issue is, last I heard it's an updated Da Capo, there are better and more integrated PLLs around so a lot of the work is done. It's not like it's a moonshot.
  11. davidjt

    davidjt pfm Member

    True, but the latest rear panel layout gives an idea of just how much is being squeezed into a small footprint. Combine that with a 'no compromise' approach and I doubt whether most designers would even attempt it.

    It's just a shame that John's ambition and the more limited requirements of a majority have diverged so much. Some of us will be satisfied eventually, others will continue to feel let down no matter what happens.
  12. killie99

    killie99 pfm Member

    John has now replied on Facebook to my request for a realistic delivery date for MDAC2, sounds like it is still a long way off:

    "OK, so I'm very reluctant to commit to a date as I keep getting hit badly when I miss it - what I KEEP having to repeat and its so hard to make people understand is that design - true design is not a linear process, you cannot say how long it takes. If I where copying a datasheet circuit then its easier... Sometimes the design flows then other times you get stuck for the most stupid issue... its just so hard to say.

    I can say to complete the Analogue PCB requires two major section the Clock circuit (and its PSU) and the DAC Array PSU, with the DAC array PSU as the most complex "outstanding" section to be designed.

    Currently I'm about 40% to 50% complete on the clock section... Once this is completed (and its PSU) then I'll post the progress update."

    And on the Detox:

    "I have the Pricing from the vendor, but there are a couple of issues I'm working on:-

    1. I need to workout shipping, Handling, Importation costs / Duty and Tax's before I have the final price - this is VERY complex to arrange as I also have to arrange warehousing etc. I have to order 250 units, this is the MOQ (Minimum order Qty) - with packaging this is physically larger - so I need to also include warehousing costs etc.

    2. I need to earn the funds to cover the extra 120 pcs of the MOQ (there are about 130 detox orders if ALL development sponsorship are converted to production units) - so I have to personally finance the extra 120 chassis - which are in effect "spares" and surplice to requirement at this time (My time is required to complete MDAC2 / VFETs etc. so I have no plans to market / manufacture / support the Detox once the development sponsorship units are built) - To cover these costs (which are not insubstantial, and in fact more then the development funding received), I need to take on extra design work.. this impacts timescales...

    I also have to progress the MDAC2 design, so I'm not going to put effort into the Detox until I've completed the MDAC2's next design milestone which is completion of the Clock circuit.
  13. wintoid

    wintoid pfm Member

    Thanks for taking the time to share this.
    Mark Dirac likes this.
  14. gints

    gints pfm Member

    Could John consider to give this Detox final stage to third party for finishing with permission to sell left over units in open market? Is there still market for that kind level of USB isolators?
  15. Dowser

    Dowser Learning to bodge again..

    If there was an actual product to buy, quite a few additional people maybe interested (including myself) :)
  16. fred sonnen

    fred sonnen pfm Member

    Did he ever thought about Massdrop?
  17. sq225917

    sq225917 Bit of this, bit of that

    Are we expecting the same for the mdac, too large a moq to make it happen.

    Massdrop, mmmm
  18. gints

    gints pfm Member

    I understand that board was finished some time ago. Now case also finally sorted out. All is left is production and logistics.
  19. DimitryZ

    DimitryZ pfm Member

    Absolutely...Case of strange "non-business" thinking on part of Mr. Westlake. This well could be a terrific money making opportunity for him, instead of a terrible financial burden he describes. I would be in the market for an innovative DAC...
    Mark Dirac likes this.
  20. gints

    gints pfm Member

    It was about Detox, not dac.
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