MDAC First Listen (part 00111001)

[Stunsworth]

I just LOVE the host of negative comments that ProJect well have a version of the streamer yet there has been little interest in the Lakewest Beta units... (A Big Thank you to those who HAVE supported the MiniStreamer and provided feedback on the software )

Maybe there's been little interest because it's not what anyone signed up for almost five years ago. As I've stated many times I have no problem with you selling on 'MDAC 2 related' designs to third parties, you do need to put food on the table after all, but after four and a half years we've seen nothing of what we all originally invested in.

On the Wiki page you mentioned that the new board would cost in the region of £200-250...

http://mdac2.referata.com/wiki/Main_Page

I realise that's now an unrealistic estimate, so for the sake of clarity could you now give us an estimate of what you think the replacement board will cost with the various options? I don't think anyone is looking for a precise cost, just a ballpark figure so that people (ok, what I mean is me) can decide if they want to fund the manufacturing of the board.

 

[ti33er]

(I’ve ordered the internal Streamer for MDAC2, for the record)

Comment about chassis from Pro-ject wasn’t negative, was merely suggesting if Pro-ject would allow you to get some of these cases, possibly unbranded for the few Dev testers

 

[JohnW]

(I’ve ordered the internal Streamer for MDAC2, for the record)

Comment about chassis from Pro-ject wasn’t negative, was merely suggesting if Pro-ject would allow you to get some of these cases, possibly unbranded for the few Dev testers

Sorry Paul, my post was not aim at you, however:-

1. The Project Streamer is a different design to the Lakewest streamer PCB (the Lakewest PCB is physically larger and a sightly more advanced design).

2. We already HAVE chassis for the Lakewest streamer (they are currently being reworked to add extra ventilation).

 

[AndrewM]

No, it was the gentleman who runs the company - introducing new products (LP and digital) to what I think were distributors.

When he was introducing their new CD transport I'm sure he said that no transport since the original Philips had been able to extract 16 bits from a CD, and that has lead to CD sound being compressed. I'm not an engineer, but that sounded bonkers to me. Perhaps I misunderstood what he was saying.

Originally Philips wanted to use 14 bit, but had to switch to 16 bit when that was adopted as the standard as preferred by Sony. As they had already tooled up for 14 bit, they used dual 14 bit chips 4x oversampled and noise shaped to get 16 bit. This was reckoned by some to be better than the early 16 bit chip transports which supposed couldn’t achieve true 16 bit performance. I’d have thought that chip and and transport design had moved on enough since then to make that a purely historic comparison, but perhaps he thinks differently.

 

[JohnW]

As they had already tooled up for 14 bit, they used dual 14 bit chips 4x oversampled and noise shaped to get 16 bit. This was reckoned by some to be better than the early 16 bit chip transports which supposed couldn’t achieve true 16 bit performance.

Interesting, as I'd totally agree the twin 14x4 machines sounded better then the later single 16x4 units.

 

[davidjt]

I realise that's now an unrealistic estimate, so for the sake of clarity could you now give us an estimate of what you think the replacement board will cost with the various options?

"About £650 + shipping etc.," The less expensive option is the dual ESS chip DevDac (with its own case and psu). As the DD2A version has no active analogue stage, I'm not sure whether further upgrades will be applicable - fwiw the custom output transformers account for nearly half the cost.

 

[HarryB]

As an outsider looking in this whole affair does appear bizarre to say the least.....

Bizarre doesn't do it justice.

 

[Stunsworth]

"About £650 + shipping etc.," The less expensive option is the dual ESS chip DevDac (with its own case and psu). As the DD2A version has no active analogue stage, I'm not sure whether further upgrades will be applicable - fwiw the custom output transformers account for nearly half the cost.

Yes, I saw that on Facebook.

 

[Tony L]

<moderating>

One highly impolite and possibly libellous post removed. I’m trying my best not to moderate this thread as I want to keep pfm as an entity entirely neutral, but I won’t allow AUP breaches or trolling from non-stake-holders.

 

[misterdog]

<moderating>

One highly impolite and possibly libellous post removed. I’m trying my best not to moderate this thread as I want to keep pfm as an entity entirely neutral, but I won’t allow AUP breaches or trolling from non-stake-holders.

Maybe why he is the only person I've ever had to use the ignore button for.

 

[gints]

No, that was somebody else, even worse.
Thanks, Tony, for moderating it.

 

[adamdea]

so could those on the facebook group tell us what the latest news is? Munich has been and gone and I see no news.is there a time estimate for the Detox, Mdac2 etc?

 

[Goldalene]

This was posted on Facebook by JW:

MDAC2 / FDAC are now discrete DD2A DAC designs,

DD2A - Direct Digital to Analogue conversion, there is no active Analogue stage with the Discrete DAC Array driving the output directly via a I/V transformer.

The Discrete DAC array is essentially a Line Lever "Power DAC" so no active analogue stage is required - this removes any sonic degradation that would be caused by the DAC's analogue stage.

There will be a selection of Modulator / Filter options mounted on a usable upgradable module - with the FDAC being FPGA based (But using the MDAC2 DAC PCB).

DSD upto DSD512 is handled by the DAC array nativity - with the Gain controlled by selecting Transformer Taps, I/V Loading resistors & Swinging the DAC Array PSU rails for fine level control - this results in no loss of digital resolution.

The DAC's signal path is the simplest possible, a High Power Discrete DAC Array, I/V Load Resistor, Capacitor (to Ground) for RF filtering and an ULTRA high quality transformer.

The MDAC2 will support all PCM formats and Direct DSD.

At the heart of the MDAC2 / FDAC is the Transformer and we are now on our forth version - which is looking very good.

Sonically, the simplest signal path is the best - for all intensive purposes the DAC Array Directly drives the analogue outputs.

MDAC2 DD2A well deliver the sonic performance promised with the MDAC2 upgrade

A Dual ES9038 ESS based DAC design is still offered as the DevDAC.

 

[mattgbell]

so could those on the facebook group tell us what the latest news is? Munich has been and gone and I see no news.is there a time estimate for the Detox, Mdac2 etc?

I think what's happened is that a request has been put in for an extension of the transition/implementation period. I hope you find this reassuring.

 

[Stunsworth]

This was posted on Facebook by JW:

MDAC2 / FDAC are now discrete DD2A DAC designs,

DD2A - Direct Digital to Analogue conversion, there is no active Analogue stage with the Discrete DAC Array driving the output directly via a I/V transformer.

The Discrete DAC array is essentially a Line Lever "Power DAC" so no active analogue stage is required - this removes any sonic degradation that would be caused by the DAC's analogue stage.

There will be a selection of Modulator / Filter options mounted on a usable upgradable module - with the FDAC being FPGA based (But using the MDAC2 DAC PCB).

DSD upto DSD512 is handled by the DAC array nativity - with the Gain controlled by selecting Transformer Taps, I/V Loading resistors & Swinging the DAC Array PSU rails for fine level control - this results in no loss of digital resolution.

The DAC's signal path is the simplest possible, a High Power Discrete DAC Array, I/V Load Resistor, Capacitor (to Ground) for RF filtering and an ULTRA high quality transformer.

The MDAC2 will support all PCM formats and Direct DSD.

At the heart of the MDAC2 / FDAC is the Transformer and we are now on our forth version - which is looking very good.

Sonically, the simplest signal path is the best - for all intensive purposes the DAC Array Directly drives the analogue outputs.

MDAC2 DD2A well deliver the sonic performance promised with the MDAC2 upgrade

A Dual ES9038 ESS based DAC design is still offered as the DevDAC.

Just to add to that, the estimated cost is £650 plus shipping for the 'basic' version with the custom designed transformers costing £300 (I'm assuming that's part of the £650 as there's no non-transformer version offered).

 

[ti33er]

I’m happier with Discrete DAC. You won’t be bothered by every new revision coming out of ESS touting superior performance, as you will know what you have is the ultimate already ;-)

 

[Space is the Place]

Just to add to that, the estimated cost is £650 plus shipping for the 'basic' version with the custom designed transformers costing £300 (I'm assuming that's part of the £650 as there's no non-transformer version offered).

Yes i thought there were three different dac boards coming up that used a custom supply, then a few months ago... it was just one board that used the original power supply?
As always i'm completely lost and i've been following the thread quite closely lately.

I'm going to use the original MDAC as my headphone amp Dac and hope it lasts a while. Been here right from the DIY Audio MDAC inception, would have been nice eventually to have a new slot in board for the MDAC at some point in time, but i'm just going to leave it now.

 

[misterdog]

No, that was somebody else, even worse.
Thanks, Tony, for moderating it.

I only have one person on my ignore list is there a doppelganger - spooky.

 

[fred sonnen]

Interesting, as I'd totally agree the twin 14x4 machines sounded better then the later single 16x4 units.

This was posted on Facebook by JW:
MDAC2 / FDAC are now discrete DD2A DAC designs,...

Now I must say, I am very disappointed at how John is handling this!
I am waiting since 4+ Years. Now that there seems to be some exploitable information, we need a messenger?

After such a long time and so many delays, I just expect the developer / John here to tell the facts and to answer questions regarding his products.
We (the lojal) people do not deserve such behaviour.

 

[Ian M]

Now I must say, I am very disappointed at how John is handling this!
I am waiting since 4+ Years. Now that there seems to be some exploitable information, we need a messenger?

After such a long time and so many delays, I just expect the developer / John here to tell the facts and to answer questions regarding his products.
We (the lojal) people do not deserve such behaviour.

I would hazard a guess that of all the people that put money in this project that there are very few left that understand what’s happening. I would really like to get something out of it eventually. The trouble is I no longer know what i’m waiting for or even if I need it.